Who Are You After The Crisis Ends with Nerissa Balland

It's Therapy Thursday!!

Survival can be the loudest chapter, but the quiet that comes after is where so many of the real questions hit. We sit down with Nerissa Balland, a therapeutic arts practitioner, visual artist, and the author of Canvas of Courage, to talk about what it means to rebuild your identity after cancer, trauma, grief, or any life-altering change that leaves you feeling emotionally disoriented. Her story begins with a metastatic melanoma diagnosis while she’s five months pregnant, and it opens into something bigger: how we carry unprocessed emotion when there are no words for it. 

Nerissa shares the line that reframed healing for us: “Broken crayons still color.” We dig into why creativity is not about making “good art,” but about giving fear, grief, guilt, and survival mode somewhere to go. We talk presence over perfection, the pressure to look strong, and what it changes when our kids see us rest, cry, and recover instead of pretending we have it all together. 

We also get honest about survivorship, including the guilt of outliving others, the PTSD that can linger, and why “fake positivity” can backfire. Along the way, we challenge modern speed culture and quick-fix self-care, and we point toward tools that actually hold up: asking for help, building community, and using grounding practices like music, movement, breath work, and visual expression to reconnect with yourself. 

If this conversation gives you language for something you’ve been carrying, subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more listeners can find it. What’s one emotion you wish you had a safer place to put down?

Nerissa was diagnosed with cancer while five months pregnant. She didn't write a book about surviving. She wrote one about what happens after, and why so many people fall apart once the adrenaline stops. Her work gives your listeners a framework for processing what they've been through, whether they're currently in it or years out.

Canvas of Courage
The Art of Healing, Hope, and Gratitude for Young Mothers Facing Cancer

 Available on Amazon & Barnes & Noble

Art Website 

• IG: @nerissaballandart
• Support patient access to Canvas of Courage: GoFundMe

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Narissa

Candace Patrice 0:05

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Essential Mental Healing, where I am your host, Candace Patrice. And joining me, like always, is my lovely, beautiful, powerful, voice-commanding mother, Janet Hale. Hello, hello, hello. And that's usually how I say it, but I just learned today that there's something extra going on with this voice. Good morning to everybody. We also have a guest with us today. We have Narissa Balland. Did I say that last name correctly? Yes, you did. Oh, look at me. I probably should have asked that before we hit record, but here we are. I've been saying your first name only. So welcome, welcome. Uh, how are you today? I'm good. I mean, the day's just starting with bright and early. It is bright and bright and early. I am doing good. It's bright and early for me too. So I'm getting started, but I do plan on going back to sleep for a little bit. I'm, you know, that's just a me thing. And how are you doing, Mom? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm uh, well, you know, I get up pretty early and I play my music and you know, I just fall in love with the day. So I did a little bit of that this morning, right? So, yeah, it is good. Well, that's good. That's I'm glad that, you know, yeah. I wish I had more morning to talk about, but that's okay. It's gonna be a great weekend. But Narissa, we want to know a little bit about you. Um, let's snap our audience in, let's give them something powerful, you know. Who are you? Who are me? Who are me? Who are me? Who are me? That's that's the morning talking. Well,

Cancer And The Identity Aftermath

Candace Patrice 2:04

so for your listeners, I I am a therapeutic arts practitioner, a visual artist, and an author, and I enhance a person's well-being through the arts to create a healthier world. Now, let me unpack that for you because that was a lot in that first sentence about me. Um, so I I've explored what happens after survival when life changes you, and you have to decide who you're gonna become next. So you survive, and then everyone around you breathes a sigh of relief, right? Like the hardest part is over. But for many of us, that's where the real questions start. Right? Like, who am I now? What do I do with what I've been through? Um, how do I move forward when I don't feel like the same person anymore? My entry point into this work was cancer. I was diagnosed with metastatic melanoma while I was five months pregnant and I had a toddler at home. So survival for me became a very quick focus in my life. Um, but what no one prepared me for is what came next, right? So identity loss, um, emotional disorientation, the feeling that life moved forward while part of me was still trying to catch up. So later, while I was creating my book, Canvas of Courage, I interviewed over a hundred young mothers navigating cancer and other life-altering experiences. And across those conversations, I kept seeing and hearing the same thing. Not brokenness, but emotion with nowhere to go. Grief, um, fear, survival mode, a version of themselves that they no longer recognized, myself included. The women who seemed able to move through it weren't necessarily stronger, but many had found some way to process what they were carrying, and that was through a creative practice. Um, they had somewhere for their emotion to go. And most of us are walking around with things we haven't processed yet, not because we're broken, but because we haven't found a way to put them down, and that's what creative expression can do. It gives what you're carrying somewhere to go. Let me give you an example.

Why Creativity Helps You Process

Candace Patrice 4:43

Broken crayons still color. I love this line. If right now I had a crayon that your listeners could see and I snapped it in half, or even I put it into fragments, right? It still colors. It might feel different in your hands, and it might color differently because of all those jagged edges, but it's still colors, it still functions. Um, and that concept that completely changed how I understood healing. Because I don't see art as a product, I see it as a process, and you don't need to be an artist, you need a safe way to process what's happening inside of you. So what do you do when you can't put into words what you're going through? Most of us are carrying things that don't have language yet. But creativity gives that material somewhere to go. And when people finally have a place for those emotions to go, it often creates clarity and connection and a way to move forward that feels like their own again. And I help people find that.

Broken Crayons Still Color

Candace Patrice 6:07

So the first thing was I heard you talk about the crayons, right? And immediately I went, wow, I always throw away the broken crayons. I don't even think about the fact that they can steal color. Like there's still a crayon. And it made me think like, do we do that to ourselves in the brokenness? Do we throw ourselves away? Yes, that's the answer. All right, cool. Moving on. To be honest. Okay, so it's happening internally and externally. Let me ask you this. Did you throw yourself away during your diagnosis? There were there were times of it, yes, I did. There were times that I felt like throwing in the towel and I was done. Yes. And how how did you survive the toddler stage while doing something that the hardest part of a woman's journey, raising or creating a child within, and then having to do the next hardest thing, surviving, surviving? How did you maneuver and manage during that time as a mom, uh incubator, and a cancer diagnoser, diagnose? So sometimes I think you don't have an option when you have children, and you find some way by the grace of God to get through something that maybe you can't articulate in the moment. And I'll back up for one moment, because when we talk about motherhood, right? Like motherhood often

Motherhood Guilt And Letting Go Control

Candace Patrice 7:52

asks us to surrender our sleep and our bodies and our expectations. But when you have something chronic or a terminal illness or cancer, something life surmounting can be also other, you know, life cycles and tragedies and trauma that we go through. It doesn't have to be an illness, but it strips away the illusion that we have control. Um, the control that's unfolding of our lives. And often control can feel like safety, right? Because ultimately, deep down, we have basic human survival mode that we need, right? And safety is one of them. I don't mean just physical safety, but our emotional safety. So there are a lot of things I think for me and um many women that I had conversations with where you begin to get overwhelmed by the amount of guilt, right? Or fear, maybe the fear of dying, the fear, well, my kids remember me or even know me. Um, or I'm missing out on milestones in their life, and other people are raising my children right now. Maybe I'm too sick to be able to participate in their lives the way that I'd want to. There's a guilt about that, and there's a fear, right? And then there's also just the general functioning while you're emotionally fragmented, like you said, right? And I think it's a reminder for us as people or even as mothers. So I'm sure we have people who are not mothers listening in. So when I say teach your children grace through example, you know, it doesn't have to be just chill children, it can be the immediate people in your environment, in your community, in your family, your friends, teaching others grace through your example, right? And some of that is to allow yourself permission, right? It's your permission, right? You can let your the people around you see you rest. That's your number one goal if you're experiencing an illness. And then you can let them see you rise. They can see both sides of you. They don't have to just see strength because strength isn't always about power, right? It can be very soft and quiet and doing the things that you need to do to repair yourself. So I think it it has to do with what you show as an example, at least for me. And then also redefining, I'm a very productive person with a lot of things. I've always been operating with a lot of different things going on. I do better with a lot of things when there aren't a lot of things going on, then I'm trying to fill my life with more things, just things to do that are productive. But as a parent and as a mother, right? And you know, I also interviewed single moms, right? They don't have a partner to help them out. Um, but clean kitchen stay, right? But your memories don't. And you have to choose presence over perfection. That was my number one light bulb moment, is that me being there in no matter what form would create those memories and those experiences for myself, my children. And if I didn't start choosing presence over perfection, I would have

Redefining Strength As Vulnerability

Candace Patrice 11:07

an issue. So one of the things when I'm listening to you, and I, oh man, I think about um how during a time of a crisis, whatever that is, right? It could be an illness, it could be the end of a marriage, it can be the death of a loved one, all those things. And how things are so heightened in the beginning. And you know, we're we're really, well, the way I see it, not dealing with it, but managing through it. And when it's quiet, and it's time to find myself, and I say, where is she? Where does she go? And allow her to rise up in whatever that moment is, and allow her to look the way she looks, not pretend and fix it all together, but to say, I this is where I am in the moment, whatever that moment is, and to allow myself to be that weird Janet, that weird one, you know, the one, you know, because at some point, I appreciate all of what you're saying, but at some point, this whole I'm just so strong, I've done it, and and and I hear a lot of that, and I'm like, girl, I don't for me, I'm glad that is not what strength looks like to me anymore. Yes, it takes because strength strength. Well, I didn't hear you. But it takes a while to get there. I think we you're right what you're saying, you know, like exactly it wasn't I'm I'm almost 49 now, but it wasn't until I was 40, and I think I was I was talking to Candace about this earlier. It wasn't until I was 40 till I was confident enough to say, I don't know everything. I don't need to know everything, I'm okay with not knowing it all. And actually, I love to tell you when I don't know something so I can learn it. I didn't feel that way when I was in my 20s or my 30s. I felt like I had to reassure everyone that I had it together. And I can't do it. And I do. And I still struggle with that. Oh, well, struggle. Yeah, I didn't say I figured it out. I just figured the awareness that I still I still struggle with it. But I and it it reminds me of um uh my relationship with Candace. And I say that because I'm a mother, so I'm a woman, and I, you know, I was a kid, and then I was a teenager, and then uh I was all these things, and and then I'm and I have someone who's growing up while I'm still growing up. I don't think I'll ever stop growing up. I'm gonna keep growing up, right? And so there are times when I'm just not perfect, and I can feel myself going, oh, I don't know if I want her to see that part. But I know how important it is for her to see that part. Yeah. Oh, anyway, oh, so that when her daughter looks at her in a moment, when it's not all pretty, because that's what strength looks like. It's when I'm just vulnerable and naked, and I'm like, oh, but I'm still your mom. I'm still, I'm still your mom. I'm just not, I don't have it all together. And I just think when we talk about this, um I know I just went all around the world, but just when I hear this, I'm gonna say, Janet, what happened? But just to I, you know, it just for me when I think about what strength looks like to me now, and I still struggle in some areas, and some folks are listening, like, well, Janet, I'm like, no, I still struggle. But um, to understand that strength for me, I'll just say for me, is being able to be vulnerable, to recognize the cracks, and just, you know, I'm not trying to sweep the the whatever broke was just broken and put in a dustpan and throw it away. Whatever that is, I take little pieces at different moments and start repairing it. This goes so nicely. I had a conversation this morning with my older son. Well, both of them were sitting, I was giving him breakfast. Uh, have two sons, uh Teddy and Eli, and they're nine and eleven. And we were talking about something, they brought something up about my mother. And I have a mother. We're only 20 years apart, so she's young. She's like, and you know, when you go everywhere, it's like, is that your sister? And I'm like, no, it's my mother. But uh, you know, they my older one said something to me was, you know, oh, well, maybe she didn't do a good job at something. And uh, like, do you do you forgive her? I thought this was a very interesting conversation at like 8 a.m. in the morning.

Addiction And What We Do Not Say

Candace Patrice 15:55

And I said, you know, my mother was young when she had me. I said, now I it took me a long time to figure this out, and probably not till I became a mother myself, but she didn't have a handbook. She did the best she could do. And I forgive her for any of the things that happened because she just she didn't know what she didn't know. And we worked through that. I said, I'm over all of those. I don't walk around with anything that I'm feeling. And he said, Well, I wouldn't forgive her for that. And he loves his grandmother. And I was like, God damn, he's like, he's our audience, and um, he's he's all it's very difficult. And I said, Well, I hope that in some time in your life, I said, because I will do something wrong to you, and it won't be intentional, but it'll be something because I also don't have a handbook. I'm going through this life with you without that, but I'm trying my best. And I said, I hope one day you'll you'll forgive me for that. You you want to forgive people and let go and move on. I said, you you keep that inside. So the thing, okay, sorry, Candace. The um the uh watching the mother, and uh when I speak of the um uh Candace seeing me and I'm not you know all good and all that, I think about her watching me in times when I harmed myself, and times when I was in my full alcoholic addiction, and times when I didn't know how to stand up for myself in a relationship. Those times, like, you know, because that's sometimes a little embarrassing, like oh, you know, but it is part of our story. Well, at least the one thing I can say is that you can talk about it. Yeah, that's true. You know, you're naming some things that are very close to me and my situation as well, and we don't talk about it. But yeah, I'd love to talk about it. I don't know if we talked about it in the moment, though. Did we talk about it in the moment, mom? Yes, because when I got sober, you were a baby. When I relapsed, you were way in your teens, and I was just well, no, we didn't. That is so true. No, we did not. You're absolutely correct. No, we did not. I had this conversation with myself, but I don't think I shared it with you. Do you think that it would have been helpful to share in the moment, or did the processing need to happen? I think it would have been um good to share it earlier. Um, I think it would have been helpful for me to get back into recovery because then I would have been really aware that you were aware of what the hell I was doing to myself. But because I got sober when you were a kid, a baby, or and then I relapsed. Um in my mind, I'm I guess, it's like, well, she doesn't know. Like, you know, I'm just picking up a drink. How the hell does she know? You you didn't have the history. Well, your brother had the history. He had the moments where I was a drunk. You were, I think, one year old when I got sober. So, you know, maybe it it was me feeling like I was able to pull the wool over your eyes. Right? But if I I if I had talked to you about that struggle, I may have felt more responsible to you in that moment. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Wow, no, thank you for that. I wanted to

The Camp Checklist Meltdown

Candace Patrice 20:01

um talk about really fast just a story when you were sharing um about the being vulnerable in the moment and letting your kids see you when you're not strong. Um and I sometimes can struggle with that because, and well, not struggle, but I guess I don't want it to be so big when it happens. So Kamari went to camp a few weeks ago, and I was trying to make sure everything was together. I was like, okay, I'm doing my checklist. Camp is paid for, looking at everything that she needs because she had to go to camp the next day. Like I got her hair done, check. I got the clothes she needs, check, I got um the outerwear, the sleepwear, all the things that she's gonna need. And it's nighttime, it's about 10 o'clock at night. So she didn't get the sleep, but that's okay. She's going to camp. It's all right. Um, and I look down, and the there's one thing I didn't get to. And she had these nails on for a while, and they were growing out, and I didn't make it to getting them taken off. And all I could think was, I didn't complete everything. And she's standing there next to me, and I look and I go, Oh my God. She's like, What? I'm like, I didn't get to your nails. I didn't get to your nails. And I'm thinking about what if she hits them on something and they break, or you know, maybe her nail will start bleeding. And I'm like, and I just start crying. I just bust out crying, but I feel so bad because in this moment, I'm watching her take care of me. And I'm like, this shouldn't be because I'm the mommy. But as I'm listening to you guys talk, it's she gets she gets to see me recover in this moment as well. And that things aren't perfect. Like I am literally doing my best. And I hear her tell me, it's okay, mommy, you're doing a good job. Like, and it's just wow, the whole Role reversal thing and the transparency and what strength looks like. And maybe today I get to look at that and say that was a part of strength, you know, being able to break down and build back up in that moment. So I just wanted to share that. That's all. So what was her response? I'm sorry, but what was her response to the nails? I'm curious. What was her response when you look down and say, Oh, I didn't get your nails done? Did she go, oh, you you're the worst. No, that's what I'm saying that I've ever her response is always you're doing a good job. It's okay. Take a deep breath. Like, mommy, relax. She hailed me. She come here, come here, mama, come here. And, you know, it's interesting to walk. You know, we do this dance together. We're doing this journey. She's the partner I have in the house right now. So she sees things that maybe I would be able to take to a partner or, you know, if I had one. But it's these moments that happen in front of her from time to time. It's not often, but it does happen from time to time. And because of how I respond to her, I think is how she responds to me. We are the model. You talked about that, Narissa. Like we have to model for our kids. So yeah, and that's all, you know, nothing to get into to leave. So, well, I want I'm gonna add two things to something that I heard from you. First,

Crisis Reveals What You Suppressed

Candace Patrice 23:18

I want to say, and it'll tie, not that this was a crisis, okay, but it can be like a mini crisis when we're going through an anxiety, something that goes, a trigger that we have, right? It doesn't have to be crisis, can come on a lot of different levels, right? So I'm just want to define that for people listening because I'm not talking about life-threatening crisis, but if a crisis uh, if you're having it, it doesn't create truth. It reveals it, reveals it. Because when I'm listening to you, have your own fears, your own beliefs, your own desires, right? How you want to approach a situation. But it's if you have suppressed any of that, which a lot of us do, it'll surface in the moment that life tests you. And it's how you embrace it that will save you emotionally. So when I hear this story that you're giving us today, what you went through, something for you is a trigger that you weren't good enough to complete your list that you created. And then it's how did you save yourself emotionally? Well, in the moment, your child is coddling you to give you that feeling of validity. So you ask yourself, how can I have that validity through myself? What how can I give that to myself without her needing to give it to me? Sometimes we need that other person, and that's okay because that's how we can see things, right? If it's she's modeling to you, and that's a new observation and a lesson that you learned from her. So that's the first thing I heard. And the second thing I heard that was very interesting, something just to take and process on your own. Your checklist for getting her ready for camp was all physical. There was nothing emotional on that list. Are you excited for tomorrow? What do you what are you feeling? If you had a feeling, what color is that? If you were to go to that camp and you have an emotion about what color, what color is that emotion? What shape does it take? Right? Where you start to change the conversation a little bit from those checklist items that are you know physical things that we have to tasks we have to administer to the emotional component of it. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you for that. Because I had

When Healing Actually Begins

Candace Patrice 25:43

some thoughts and you you um worded them perfectly for me. Well, I wanted to ask for you, Narissa. Um, when did your healing begin during your from your diagnosis? Um yeah, from your diet, when did your healing begin? I know for some people, I know it got harder after I don't want to say harder. When did it begin? That's the question. I think it probably began the minute that I got a diagnosis. And I wouldn't have said it like this, um, probably for years, but it took me a long time to understand that healing is not the absence of pain and it is the um presence of connection and clarity and compassion for yourself and for others around you. Um, so I would say the moment I got diagnosed, um that started a healing journey because I was a person that was living that living a life that looked like I had everything on paper, but I was really toxic. Um I get emotional. Okay, that's what we that's what this is for. Yeah. So I was living toxic um in my mind. And uh I avoided a lot of things that surfaced. I was very, very good at putting them down. And I can even be emotional about it today, and it doesn't mean that I haven't healed from it, it just means I remember it because I don't want to go back to that either. Um, so I would say that the healing journey for me started in the most painful and uncomfortable way, and then having to sit with that discomfort and um and accountability and not to blame other people, right? To take a look at what I had control of and what I was doing, um, and that I wasn't proud of that, and I wanted to change that. So when I say about the diagnosis and you're given something that potentially could be terminal, you very quickly, like the questions I I mentioned earlier when you were um asking me about myself was who am I now? Or it was really what's my legacy? You know, if if I end up dying in a couple of years or sooner, what will I leave behind? And and how will people remember me? Um, you know, do I want them to remember a resume, you know, someone that looks good on paper, or someone that you know made them remember something. So prior to being in art, there's a great quote from Maya and Maya Angelo, and and I use this a lot in terms of um I had been an event planner and a designer. And you know, you when you're in that job, obviously you make money by um all the things you're upselling and that you're doing to make a part, a party as a designer beautiful and perfect. But the reality is, is no one, when you go to like a wedding, right? In in five, ten years, no one remembers the the flowers that you had on your table. They don't remember what your decor and your decorations are, even if it was an all-out, an all-out crazy celebration. What they're gonna remember is how they felt when they left the party, right? So did they have enough to eat? Did they leave hungry? Did they have enough to drink? Um, something like that, and and did they have a good time, right? So it's how they felt. That's the memory they take with them, not how beautiful the space looked or how perfect everything flowed that day or didn't. They weren't gonna remember any of those things. And that's the same thing about our life, right? What did you give someone to help them have a feeling, a connection, some more clarity in life? Um, because they're not remembering the earrings and the outfit that I put on, or how much I might have taken the time to look a certain way. I'm doing that for myself, not doing that for them. I didn't really recognize that though, earlier on, you know. So I I would say that healing starts. Healing's always going. So it started with the it started from when I was diagnosed. I just didn't know that that's what it was. And I really do look at um, I say for me and not everyone, because this can be a hard thing for many people to say that have um maybe had something in their life. But you know, sometimes your greatest uh gift becomes an opportunity um for you. Um and in that, all right, uh it's not your gift, excuse me, it's your challenge. So sometimes your greatest challenge opens an opportunity to become your greatest gift. And cancer was that for me. It taught, it was my teacher. Um, and it taught me things. Now, I'm not saying everybody needs to get some cancer, some chronic illness in your way, and hopefully you don't. But sometimes, you know, you you hear people a lot, especially in alcoholism. I have a lot of that runs through our family. You'll hear, oh, you gotta hit rock bottom before you can come back. You don't gotta go to rock bottom. I mean, some of us do. Um, and you know, some of us do, but you don't have to. If you can, if you can get the right tools in place ahead of time, maybe we can save you from getting to rock bottom or getting a terminal illness that has to show you the way on how to survive. So kind of a long-winded answer for that, but uh, I love the answer, and I thought about when I was listening to you, the whole, you know, the the checklist, and it's not just Candace's checklist. You know, folks have a checklist. I got check checklists because I like being able to say I have like checklists for my checklists. Like because you do. Oh, I love like I love to just even if I already did it and I know I did it, and it doesn't need to be on the list, I love to put it down. So I don't have to say I did it. Um so I think about Candace and I have had conversations about this in lately, well, last couple of years, I think. Um, and I I would say to her, I just wanted you to see me as your mother. Not the degrees that I have, not the work that I do, not the all the things, not the house that I live in. I mean, I live in a regular house, but I'm just saying. But um, just being her mom. Just that. And I thought about you when you were talking earlier, and watching you and thinking, and just watching your mannerisms and your beautiful earrings, I think are the coolest damn earrings of all, but just watching you and saying, This is a cool woman. This is a nice woman. This is a woman that just looks like she's comfortable in her skin, kind of woman. And so when I think about, and I'm sure when I think back on this podcast, that's how I'm going to remember you. Oh, I love that. Thank you. Welcome.

Legacy Is How People Feel

Candace Patrice 33:10

Uh I I was listening to you, mom, talk about just being my mom, and it made me think that my dad's death allowed my relationship with you to flourish. I was I was a daddy's girl. Like I she still is. That's what I'm thinking. I throw my mama under the bus. I'd be like, Daddy, mama, mama. She's like, Yeah, I'll still be under the bus. Yes. I have a question for you, Candace. Did you, I don't know when your father passed away. 21. When you were 21? No, 2021, February. Oh, 2021. So, okay, so then five five years. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, how was the relationship with yourself before that? I don't know, actually, but what I do know is that there was a sense of relief because for some reason, and I I noticed this after his passing, that I felt like I had to do things right because he was so proud of me. And I wanted him to stay proud of me. So any question, like if he'll ask me, what you doing with your acting, I felt like I needed to be doing something with my acting so I can make my daddy proud. Um, I I probably did not need to do that, but I didn't recognize that until the relief of if I'm not doing this, it's okay because I don't have my daddy to let down. So I I'm gonna challenge you here because I don't think it was the death of your father that gave you that with your mother. I think it's the relationship that you have with yourself that sets the foundation for every other relationship in your life. I would totally agree. But it's the moment that helped you get there. Yes. Um, I will say after my separation/slash divorce is when I began to have the relationship with myself that um allowed me to grow. And then I think that by my mother and I having these open and transparent conversations and just the authenticity of them, maybe the podcast, you know, that started right after dad's death. Yeah, I want to say the November after dad's death. So um I would totally agree. A lot of my self-work allowed me to have different relationships. Yeah. And I have all kinds of things going in my head about that with you. Um, and it uh it reminds me of a time that um we went to an event after you graduate from Howard University. And um there was an event at Mary Grove College. You're local, so you know where Mary Grove is, right? Me? Yes. I grew up in I grew up in Maryland. You're not local. No, I'm in Southville. Oh, I'm sorry, okay. But I didn't grow up in Maryland, but right outside of DC. Okay, familiar with Howard College or there was, it's gone now. A college over here locally. And um, I remember Candace, I don't know if you were pregnant or you had just had Kamara. I think you just had her, I don't remember. And so folks were walking around and they had their accomplishments. And I don't know if you're gonna remember this. And I was watching you, and so folks were, and I'm this and I'm that, and Candace started shrinking. Um, um, um I said, oh hell no to this. Oh no. And we had a conversation, and I said, honey, you are who you are, and you have things to be proud of. They're your things. But I watched my daughter get, and I've done I've done it, so it's not like you know, I'm all perfect with it, but just watching her um want to impress or be whatever that is, right? And um, so when when you when Candace, when you talk about your dad and needing the approval on all those things, I think about how for me watching you and not wanting to see you in that light, and for you to be set free from that. So now I get the Candace who's combative. I mean, we just I'm just getting all the stuff. But I'm getting what'd you say? Be careful what you wish for. Yep. Yeah, so I just um when you say that, Candace, it just made me uh think about that. Uh I'm glad to hear it too. Uh again, I know you said it before, but I'm I'm hearing it different today. I don't know why. Growth, learning to say words that there I go, back in my head. Learning to say the appropriate words at the appropriate time and what they really mean and thinking, you know, high-pitched, no. Oh, um that was significant to the audience. You may not know significant that was. Um, I did have a question for you, Narissa. After interviewing all of these women, what was your most significant story and why? And how does it relate to you?

Approval And The Relationship With Self

Candace Patrice 38:58

Hmm. It's hard to uh I I'd hate to say most significant, only because I really do try to honor all of these women's stories. Um, and it was also difficult to choose uh 18 other stories. So the book itself has 19, that's including my own story. So 18 women after interviewing hundreds. Uh, so it was really about finding the commonalities and the patterns that I was looking for that would help people understand how they could move forward. Um, and also patterns and strength and permission and forgiveness and um survival. So I'll caution myself not to use the most significant because I do find each of them very special. Um and their circumstances are quite different, and their illnesses are different, and their demographic, financially uh, you know, are different, geographically different. So it's kind of hard to put one. But what I can say is um one of the hardest ones for me, the most difficult, um, in terms of recording recently, because I I mentioned um to you off this that I had an audiobook. Re trying to read these stories, even though I've written them and I've heard them and I've interviewed, they're still so powerful and emotional. So I had to really practice them so that I could get through them without, you know, the emotion. So some there was a story by Carrie, and um unfortunately she's no longer with us. She passed away before this book, um, before she could even know that the book was being published. But she was a young woman um when she was first diagnosed with cancer, and she hadn't had her child yet. And she had her child after her first bout of cancer, but it returned and then became metastatic. And um she was very ill. I mean, she had a very full life and she worked as a gymnastic coach. Um, and she's she had such a loving community, um, probably something I'd be envious of. I mean, such a strong, large community to help her. Um, something I didn't have in my own journey. But it was the way her love was for her child, was like just so giving during a time when she was so ill. Um, but listening to her talk about how she gave herself permission during those times. Um in moments she was very ill but wanted to be with her child to say she dealt with the guilt. Oh, do I let him stay on an iPad? He's still young all day, but lie here in bed with me while not feeling well, was um a lot to listen to. I understand that, excuse me, on a lot of levels. Um and I think her modeling right there was so beautiful, um, and that she did that for quite a while when she was so ill she wasn't able to participate, and it's so beautiful how she

A Story Of Permission And Grace

Candace Patrice 42:33

found ways that we also guilt ourselves on as parents to try to find things. And I think it was the distinction for me with her is there are moments I don't need my kid to be on an iPad, but I have up so many other things to do, and then I feel guilty, and I I do that because they'll be quiet or they'll, you know, be distracted for a period of time until I can get them where I could probably do better, and I recognize that. Um but in moments of illness when you can't, um you're you need a caregiver, and yet you still want to be the caregiver, just having her child sit with her and be with her. Um, and not in a scary way because he grew up knowing her only this way. He didn't know a healthy, vibrant person that she was prior. But so that didn't matter to him, and he wasn't scared, and he wanted to be there. Um, and I thought that was very beautiful. She had um such a lovely, a lovely way about carrying her grace was very inspirational. Yeah, that's uh oh, there it reminds me. I know this is gonna sign off, but uh Beyonce has this song, I don't know the song right off. But there's this, and it always touches me when they show pictures of Transparent Martin, and you know, when all that was going on there. Parents holding the pictures of their, you know, the children. And somewhere in there they it the um they're saying that the m uh child, the children that are no longer here, you know, saying, Mama, you don't have to go to work for me. Lay in this bed next to me. And that's what, and that always makes me cry when I hear that song, because to me that's so significant. Yeah. You know, it's not about the things, it's about the time. It's about the laying in the bed, it's about the sitting on the phone for no reason. It's about those things. Wow. Time. Time is priceless. It's like that discover ad. That's credit card ad if you ever saw it's time. My relationship with time has drastically changed. Drastically changed. That happens a lot when people experience death, right? Of someone that's of importance, or if you're faced with your own immortality. But time, it's and time is a construct that's made by humans, right? It's we've made that up, that time. And unfortunately, we live in a world, whether we like it or not, where things need to happen constantly all the time. We no pun intended, where you know, we like pausing in silence. I mean, think if you think about this, I don't know, but growing up, no one took these wellness retreats as a vacation. You know, you went on vacation, you know, to enjoy yourself, get out of work, whatever, be with your family, your kids got off for the summer, whatever it was, and you went somewhere and you did something. Today we got we're we have to take trips and pay money just to relax. That's ridiculous. But do we, but do we really? I just think if you get caught up in that, you well, you yes, but you can not do anything, and also you have to have money to do it. But like at the same time, it's wild that this is a whole trend, you know. Like we have stripped away so many basic things in life that are really just natural that they shouldn't be gone from our everyday lives. And yet they are, you know, talking about self-care. Can you get five to ten minutes to take a bubble bath? You know, people are like, oh, I don't have everything today is positioned to us. Pilates in 28 days for seven minutes a day, and you will have our body. No, I no, I no, I will not. No, I will not. But this is this is every in every aspect of fitness to health, to your well-being. It's all packaged up in the in the less amount of minutes or the reduced amount of steps, and we will get there because time is, you know, time is of the essence, and we need it quicker and better. I mean, think about we go on uh Amazon Prime and I'm one of what do you mean I can't get it delivered today? It's gonna be overnight, you know. At two o'clock. I can't no, you know, I'll go over to DoorDash now. Can it be here in this and that? And it's wild, it's just wild. Listen, I'm and I'm not saying this from a standpoint of I don't participate in this. Right, that's what I because I do, I just recognize it. Yeah, we do try not to do it so much. Yeah. So we in um my uh one of my support groups, um, we have this, we actually hang out after the meeting, right? And it's it's all Zoom, but it's the coolest time. We're just we are it, you would think we're all in the same room, chilling out. We're just talking, laughing, cursing, crying, some of them praying, whatever it is that we do. But it's that time amongst these women that is so precious to me. Because, yes, we do the programming in the 12th century, you know, you gotta do that. Okay, that's all well and fine. Great. But the it's the time after that, where we just take our bras off, if you will, and we're just having a good time. Unfiltered, unfiltered, good. Unfiltered, good, right. We're not advertising, and we could do this in two minutes. Come on in and get your feelings out in two minutes. No, it's come on in and just just be together. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have a question for you, Narissa. What do you want people to get out of reading your book? Hi, it depends where people are at, and depends who's reading it. So different things, different strokes for different folks. So I would say if there was a caregiver reading it, um, not a not someone with a diagnosis, but someone, a loved

Time Pressure And The Speed Culture

Candace Patrice 49:12

one, or someone taking care of somebody that is ill, uh, I would say a couple things. One is I hope it takes you back to an understanding of why you're taking care of this person. What was that initial, either whether you're paid or you're not paid because you're a family member, or even if you didn't get a choice, but you're taking care of someone you loved, which is a heavy, heavy burden. And there can be a lot of burnout with that on the other side, not just the patient side, but also the person that takes care of you, right? There's a whole set of things we don't talk about there. I would say for that person, understanding, connecting back with why you're doing what you're doing, because um, it's wonderful, it's offer often devalued um in the moment, and you don't really get that, let's say, recognition or love and respect and value back for the things that you're doing in the moment. But maybe you can remember and it'll get you through those tough times and give you that care and compassion that you naturally have and the the gift that you have to help someone through something. If you are going through it and you're a young mother or young woman, um maybe often, because there were women in this that were not mothers in the moment they were first diagnosed but became mothers after, or there was those that were pregnant and diagnosed and or just had younger age children at home. But helping you understand uh how to ask for permission from yourself on how to ask for help because the number one uh commonality I see is that women have a very hard time asking for help for very different reasons, some very the same, but different. And asking for help is part of survival. So if there's one thing you can learn is is understanding that, and then also having hope, not fake positivity, not fuck cancer. Excuse my language for your listeners. Say fuck, say it. But uh, you know, I had a hard time personally with that, is that this aggressive talk back to something for me personally wasn't working because it I didn't have control over cancer, I didn't have control over what medicine would do or not do, and I didn't know if I would be uh the blessed person that got to survive. But what I did know is that if I did get to survive, then I need to make some changes and I would be accountable for that. Um, and hopefully it wasn't too late to do that. Hopefully I I got that chance. Also, it talks a lot about people who do survive um survivorship. There's a lot of guilt when you meet a lot of people along the way, and your Instagram becomes a digital graveyard for those that are not with you anymore. Uh it you can begin to really suffer with this PTSD of why am I here? And they are not. What why you know how come they were not blessed? You can go a lot of different routes and you can go down a real rabbit hole there. But I would say that that's it's changing your mindset. And the biggest thing that I learned along the way, which had helped me, was understanding that I have the power to control what I think and how I think it. So I'm not saying that's easy, that's a practice, and it doesn't end. There's no journey that there's the healing journey, is is doesn't have a destination. It's always destination. It's again, how do you show up? How do you show up to everything that you do? Um, how do you want to be seen? How do you want to be remembered? This book will help many people through that. You don't have to have a cancer diagnosis to read it. That's the common thread because that's my experience and that's who I interview. But there are many avenues to help with grief and loss and trauma and permission. And all of those, these are just the stories. It's very similar to like a chicken soup for the soul, if you've ever heard of that series or or read it. Um they're just they're stories. It's not a research book. You're not gonna get any guarantees or any answers out of it about life in that way. But it's how do you show up? Um, and hopefully it's a little bit of a mirror. Some of those stories will be a mirror for people, and some will be like a hand that's reaching over to grab yours. And some you may not resonate with, and you move on. It's not necessarily a book where you have to read it in any order or listen to it in any order, um, and you take your own time. And I think the whole thing is about time. You can move at your own pace as long as you're moving, and you don't get stuck in one area and not get out of that. Do you do any mentoring for women? I do workshops, so not one-on-one mentoring. Um but I do creative workshops usually, uh, so arts and health or arts and medicine. Um, I do them in different ways. So not just in a uh cancer community. I primarily work with women and children. Um and I try to help people begin to understand how

What Readers Can Take From The Book

Candace Patrice 54:46

do they see, hear, and feel the world. When I say feel, I'm not talking about emotionally, talking about kinesthetically, which is a big fancy word for feeling, meaning like cold, hot, prickly, like that. Um, how do they see, feel, and hear the world around them? And how can they translate that to making their lives um a more healthier space, a more healthier space for themselves? You do in person or virtual? I do both. Because of 2020, I did a lot of virtual there, uh, in that way. Um, but no, I do them in person. We do a lot of um grounding exercises in how to stay present in the moment, which is really difficult. Um, but we do some of that and then we do some creative practices. Um so I when I heard Janet earlier this morning when she said she woke up and she had the music going, that's a creative practice. Oh my God, what better than put on some music you love and just freedom with movement of your body? It's a release. Um, so I do I like to help people release in different ways. So using creativity, and it doesn't always have to be a visual art project to do that. We can use breath work, we can use movement, we can use dance, we can use art itself. Now I'm a visual artist, so I tend to go that route. Um, I'll jump on that if that's what people want. But sometimes people often feel very insecure with actual artwork because they go right to that feeling of I'm not an artist, even though it has nothing to do with being an artist. Uh uh this isn't art class. This isn't drawing 101 or painting 101. I don't have that expectation of you. So I really have to work with people to disassociate with um the common norms of when we hear the term art or creativity, that we think it's it's that. Oh, you said that I thought about how I am the art. You know what I mean? Whatever it is, and you know, and we all are art, and you know what I mean? We're all art. If it's the dance, if it's poems, if it's act, whatever it is, if it's talking, if whatever, we're all the art. Um, and I think about uh how, and I'm using my terminology on this stuff, how to be weird to me is such a gift. Like I just find like whatever we well, weird to me is just being authentically who you are, and you don't care what anybody else is. But so for me, that's a way of release. And I think think about like you were saying nowadays, you know, we have to do all these things to reach wherever we're trying to go. And I remember us being able to sit on the porch with the women and their and the the mothers and the aunties and you know talking about things. Um, how do you do this? How do we do that? Um, how do you make this? How do you make that? Or being at my grandmother's house and the women are in the dining room and we're talking and we're talking all kind of stuff, and the men are in the other room, they're watching the game, they're doing their thing. Grandma's in the kitchen, she's cooking up the meal, and just that whole rhythm of life, that whole rhythm, and in that rhythm, nothing had to be

Workshops Creativity Beyond Art Class

Candace Patrice 58:06

perfect. No one expected perfection, but some kind of way we were vibing and healing at the same time, at the same time. So when I hear you talk about art, it just made me think me come alive in um what art looks like to me. You just did zing, zing, zing. Mom in the kitchen stern and rise, daddy on the corner, shooting dice. Oh, okay. Um, how do people find you, Narissa? And where do they get your book from? Everything can be found right on my website. So it's my name, NarissaBaland.com. Um, I'm not sure if you'll have it listed anywhere or if I should spell it out because it's not like I got a common Jane Smith name. But um narissa Balin.com or my book, my artwork, resources, all social media. If you want to reach out, I'm um, I'm available, I'm open, just DM me. Um happy to talk and carry the conversation. And that's N-E-R-I-S-S-A-B-A-L-L-A-N-B, and it will be in the show notes. That's correct. Everything there is a one-stop shop. Perfect. Is there anything else you want to say to the audience before we do wrap and take off? Yeah, I think I'd love to just say to everyone who's listening, I'm sure that you've been listening hopefully for a while on this show. And and given the context of what it is, just you're not alone. You're not alone. Mom. Any last words? Um I'm I'm so emotional and I don't know why. Um thank you for providing us space. And also, I watched you allow yourself some space in this um podcast. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

Where To Find Help And Close

Candace Patrice 1:00:06

Thank you both for being here. And of course, if anyone is listening, you can reach out to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 24 hours seven days a week, and that's via phone call or text to that number. Uh, we really thank you guys for listening. I thank you, Narissa, for being here. Thank you, mom, for being here. I thank you for your authenticity, for your openness, uh, Narissa, for your therapy today, uh for just um allowing this interwoven dance to happen today. So thank you, and uh audience. Of course, if there's you can find our websites in the show notes as well, essentialmotivation.com. Um, all of the Facebook, Instagram stuff will be there. And of course, guys, just always remember to love hard, forgive often, and laugh frequent. Thanks, guys. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.