Sex, Shame, And Self-Respect *Trigger Warning

It's Therapy Thursday!

Sex can be joyful, grounding, spiritual, and deeply connecting and it can also be wrapped in pressure, shame, secrecy, and survival. We go there with honesty, starting from everyday body image and self-talk, then opening up a bigger conversation about sexual wellness, boundaries, and what it means to choose intimacy on purpose.

We break down abstinence vs celibacy in plain language, and we talk about why some people step back from sex for mental clarity, healing, or self-respect. From there, we explore sex as a “spiritual dance,” the kind of connection that gets better when you know your power, communicate clearly, and stop treating pleasure like something you have to earn. We also touch on tantric sex and mindful intimacy, including how slowing down can shift the whole experience from performance to presence.

Then we get serious about consent and sexual shame. We talk about coercion, manipulation, and why “giving in” is not the same as a free yes. We also name how trauma, molestation, and rape can distort self-blame, especially when people feel pressured to stay quiet or when bystanders ignore what’s happening. If you’re supporting someone in an abusive situation, we share why judgment often backfires, why leaving can be dangerous or complicated, and why paying attention to early red flags matters.

If this conversation helps you feel seen, share it with someone you trust, subscribe for more, and leave a review so more people can find Essential Mental Healing. What’s one thing you wish everyone understood about consent and healthy intimacy?

Transcript

Welcome Back And Catching Up

Candace Patrice 0:05

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Essential Mental Healing, where I am your host, Candace Patrice. Joining me today is my lovely co-host, Janet Hale, Hill, Hill.

Janet Hale 0:22

Hello. Hello.

unknown 0:24

Hello.

Janet Hale 0:26

I don't know what we're doing today, but anyway. But today's topic. But she's sounding very sensual.

Candace Patrice 0:31

It's gonna be very spicy, and we're gonna talk a little bit about sex, sex, sex, sex.

Janet Hale 0:40

To everyone who's listening, I have no idea where this conversation is going. This is a topic she picked out, and guess what? I'm here for it.

Candace Patrice 0:53

Yeah. So, but before we get into it, let's do this. Let's just catch the people up on how we've been.

Janet Hale 1:04

What'd your cup say?

Candace Patrice 1:06

Pardon me. What does your cup say?

Janet Hale 1:08

Oh, it's got godly.

Candace Patrice 1:09

I thought I saw a little God hit my screen.

Janet Hale 1:12

My sister. My sister Sharon gave it to me. You know, for all of my listeners, all most of my folks are Christian people. Um, it says God is within her, she will not fall. Facts. So, you know, the Mother's Day weekend just happened.

Candace Patrice 1:34

Oh, yeah, that did happen.

Janet Hale 1:38

Yeah. And you and I had an experience.

Candace Patrice 1:45

Don't we always?

Janet Hale 1:47

Yeah. And I got upset over a text that you sent at one, two o'clock in the morning.

Candace Patrice 1:55

One in the morning. Between one and two.

Janet Hale 1:58

Yeah. And I created a big old mess. And everyone I went to for consult was like, nause. You were out of pocket. But anyway, so we went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. But the at the end of it, we ended up together going to my favorite health food store. And um enjoying it, you know, enjoying each other. And also we we talked about some things that were important. I felt like we cleared up a few things too. Yeah.

Candace Patrice 2:33

Okay. Okay. Mother's Day was good. The weekend. And the week. How was the rest of everything else?

Janet Hale 2:44

Oh, you're talking to me? Oh, you're so into this sexy thing. God, you guys, we're all gonna be in this whatever she's into right now. And she looks extremely pretty today. Okay. She's got, I mean, she's got on her, she says not a lot of makeup, but she looks really pretty. She had lipstick and eyeliner or something going on over the eyeliner master and everything, and she's wearing her natural hair and everything, or natural curls, and she's got on necklaces and everything. And the curls curls. Big sexy hoop, Mary J. Blige's earrings and things. I mean, it's just happening over there. Yes, ma'am, it is. So for me, um, it's been pretty good. Uh, you know, I'm enjoying community, all my different pockets of community. It's just really cool. It's really good. I um uh I don't know if I mentioned this slide. I don't know if it happened, but I got a text from my neighbor. And um the text said, I got a new guy doing the grass, you know, and I said, Oh, so I hurried up and text her back and said, Oh, did he leave yet? I hadn't finished her text. The rest of the text said, Yours is done. Happy Mother's Day. I thought that was the coolest thing. Yeah, and you know, I was in a hurry to send her money, right? Like, what's your catch up? You know, sometimes it's okay just to let people do something for you. It is, and everything, it doesn't have to be transactional, it does not, and I recognized that when I we know when that was happening. I was like, Jenna, why are you sending it back? So what is that about? Or sending her money? She said no. Happy Mother's Day, and she would not give me her Cash App information. Good for her, and I'm thankful.

Candace Patrice 4:27

Yeah, yeah, so that's good. I had a um, I enjoyed Mother's Day weekend. I enjoyed, you know, okay, so last Monday was really rough for me. It was big and emotional, and I was crying a lot. However, after that, my body released whatever it was holding, and things got so good. So that the last two weeks have been really good with the one day that was big on stress. Um, but I was able to let it go, and I enjoyed Mother's Day. I enjoyed that whole weekend. I don't remember everything that happened, but I enjoyed the entire weekend, spent some time with my daughter too. And that's always nice. Um, and yeah, this week was really good. It's raining today, but I'm thinking about how the grass is gonna be so moisturized, like it's gonna be so pretty when the rain stops, or even while it's raining. It's just, I don't know, I was telling someone um how I'm grateful that God allows it to rain for us. Like, we're not in a famine or dry sweep of no rain for seven years. Like, we get rain. That is so nice, and we need it. Like our ecosystem needs the rain and the sun, and we have those things. So I guess I've been in a gratitude mood. Um, and that's been really nice. Even one of my apps, the Finch app that I use, one of the tasks for this last week has been say something about yourself that say a kind thing about yourself that a friend would say. And so lately I've been affirming myself in a way that I believe someone else would say. And I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. Or even today, I um had to take some pictures. And when I took the pictures, I was like, Well, the things I don't like, like, don't pick the picture that if I'm overly smiling, it looks like my face is crinkled, or I look like I have a double chin. The photographer said, Why are you talking about my friend like that?

Janet Hale 6:44

I said, that's a that's what we say in one of my and so then I said, you know, my curls is pop.

Candace Patrice 6:51

And she was like, That's right, redirect. I was like, you know, I like my uh, I said, I like the makeup, I like my necklace, I like the black. You know, then I started changing what was being said. And it's she gets me every time when I do something like that. And as it always does redirect, and it feels so much better because the focus shifts, and I know better, but you know how it is with yourself. You you just get yourself sometimes.

Janet Hale 7:18

Um You made me you made me think of something that happened. So you brought the uh ironing board up for me. Thank you. And I was ironing, I don't iron that much, so it had to be really wrinkled. So I was had my things and I was naked. And so, you know, the mirror, you know how my room's set up. So I'm ironing and I'm I can see my body. And I, you know, the my okay, which this is not sex, but we're gonna get on sex in a minute. And I have full breast, right? And they're heavy. And I looked at my heavy breast, and I looked at my body's changing and just all the things being 62.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah.

Janet Hale 8:03

And I said, thank you.

Candace Patrice 8:06

Just thank you. Yeah. Hmm. I had I I think I shared with you, was it the last podcast, maybe one before, when I was looking at other people and their bodies. I'm like, we all just have different body types, and everybody, so many people are looking at someone else's body opposed to their own and appreciating their own. And I'm like, you know, I tried, I try to remind myself of that. It can get hazy because I I've been in the we've been in the practice as humans to kind of look at what's wrong. Um but there it's more times now I get to look and be like, just appreciate, like, don't try to suck your stomach in. It's okay. Like, first of all, them two inches that you see, don't nobody else even know. So it ain't like you're really tripping.

Janet Hale 8:55

So back to Mother's Day, the beautiful, one of a beautiful moments. Oh, yes. Okay. So you guys, I'm, you know, have to have to have a fit for about an hour. It was actually over an hour, by the way. Okay. So, you know, I'm just done, I'm done. So when I go over to her home, she's um in the bathroom, you know, the cat runs out, and I'm like, oh my God. So Kamari saves the day, get the cats back in the house. And I'm sitting, and Candace realized I'm out there, or I said something. And she's like, Ma, come in. So she's in the bathroom and she's taking a bubble bath. So I come in, I open the door, and there's she has candles lit. She has this nice ass music going, and she's look, she's in the tub, and she's like, Mama, come in here. Oh, I'm feeling this. So I come in and I sit um on the toilet when so she's she's in the tub and we're just talking, we're just conversating, having such a beautiful, and I'm gonna say it, spiritual moment. It was just so wonderful. And a piece of that moment is when you got out and you were drying yourself, and I said, Let me dry your back. And you're like, No, no, no. And then you said, Okay, mama, because that was so important to me. Yeah, and I think it seemed like you got it. Let me let her dry my back.

Candace Patrice 10:21

Yeah. And I got I've actually shared that story a couple times because I thought it was nice.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah.

Candace Patrice 10:27

Oh, we both thought it was nice.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Yeah, I was like, my mama came over and I was in the town, and my mama drive my back.

Janet Hale 10:37

Yes, yes. So, yeah, that was uh it was beautiful, you know. It it ended up being beautiful with you.

Candace Patrice 10:45

Yeah, it was a it was a really good Mother's Day. Um and you know, I share it with you afterwards, just being able to be shame free in my body. You know, like this, my mommy.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, yeah.

Candace Patrice 10:59

Yeah, I get to see a baby again for a little bit.

Janet Hale 11:03

I was like, okay, well, but it was just beautiful. The whole moment to me was just beautiful. You had it set up so pretty and so nice, and that little speaker that I gotta find out where um what's your brother's name? Lawrence. And Lawrence got that speaker because that was nice. You said it's waterproof? It is. Oh, anyway.

Candace Patrice 11:25

Uh and not water resistant, it's real proof because it stayed outside for a whole season. See? Yeah, I think through the winter actually, and some rain, because I think I found it in like the summer, because it was in the bike basket. Yeah, um, yeah, that that was good. I really, really appreciated our moment. That was yeah, that was a a Mother's Day.

Janet Hale 11:53

It was.

Candace Patrice 11:56

And it was like legit, like that's how that should be. That was good. Yeah, okay.

Defining Abstinence And Celibacy

Candace Patrice 12:03

So I wanted to talk a little bit about sex. Um, and I don't know why I decided I wanted to talk about sex. Yeah, tell me why. I just don't know, but I want to start with a couple definitions. So, one of them being what is abstinence? So, abstinence is the conscious practice of self-restraint, voluntarily refraining from indulging in tempting behaviors or bodily pleasures. That's abstinence. Then we have celibacy, because they are different, they use them interchangeably. Celibate means choosing to refrain from all sexual activity. It is often a long-term or permanent lifestyle choice driven by personal values, spiritual, or religious convictions, uh, such as a vow of priesthood or a conscious decision to focus entirely on other aspects of life. Then we have sex addiction. Those who, I don't have the actual definition, but those who um indulge in sex to a point where it can be detrimental uh mentally, physically, financially. Um yeah. Now, where do I fall in this line? I don't know. I think I would say I fall into the line of abstinence on purpose by accident. It'll happen when it's time to happen, because I don't have a definition, uh, a an ending time. However, I know personally, I just don't want to intertwine with anyone that's not meaningful, if that makes any sense. Um, or because they're a past partner. So for me, I'm just not having sex until I feel I'm supposed to have sex, and I don't know when that happens. There's no deadline, there's no rhyme or reason. Now, during this time, I feel like there's I've had a great, I've been able to focus on other things um without it being in my head or you know, something I'm struggling with. Now, Maya, there's a the singer Maya. Do you know who Maya is? Uh, was it did she go on the Cardi B or somebody or the somebody didn't she step in for Yes at the Grandy America um tour she stepped in for, I think it was it Money Long? I believe it was money long, but she stepped in there. But she has been um celibate for seven years because she decided she wanted to focus on her mental clarity, and she's public about it, and I thought that was really cool. Um, yeah. What's what what's your feeling on sex and the the need to kick off? Don't do it. Don't get us get me kicked off because they need I think the people want to hear that. I you know the people want to hear all the perspectives.

Sex As Power And Connection

Janet Hale 15:26

Let's do it. So whoo, I think sex is a beautiful thing. I think, oh it's just a good, it's a good, it's a good thing. But I've said this before on this platform that sex is a spiritual dance. Um, sex is or can be, in the way I view it, a beautiful dance. Um, it's a powerful oh connection to another person. It's um it's all beautiful. And then there are times when it's not. Then there are times when it's used for loneliness, when it's used for trying to fit in, when it's used to step in for the place of pain. You mentioned addiction, it can be an addiction, but I like to look at the other side of it, the beauty of it, the dance of it, and the power that it has. And for me, that's just how I view it, and I always viewed it that way. Because it's such a good, a good thing, right? Yeah, and so for me, I'm very conscious of my sex. Yeah, because my sex is good, and when I say my sex is good, it's because of what I bring to the sex. And I know my power in my sex. I get it, right? And so I try, you know, I don't shy away from it, and I also know when I need to shut shut that part off. Like, mmm, I'm gonna be around here, you know. And I said when we were taking pictures with the photographer at your job for her. And she said, look at your mama doing those eyes. So go ahead. I said, baby, these eyes got me two husbands. I love that. Because, you know, and I I know what I possess, and I and I think it's important for women, regardless of your size, regardless of your shape, regardless if you have hair, no hair, long hair, it's when that power we tap into that power, it is so freaking powerful, powerful. Yeah, I'm saying powerful. It's so right, it's it's just extra, it's extremely powerful. And and now I sometimes have a when someone sees me, and what I mean by that, uh-huh, um, when so, and I'm like, mm-mm, don't do that. Don't do that, and so because I can tell, and I'm like, I wasn't even trying to send off that vibe.

Candace Patrice 18:25

That's like the episode of Gray's Anatomy when Meredith did that to Derek, and she's like, stop looking at me. He's like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 18:31

She's like, You're looking at me.

Janet Hale 18:33

Look, um, you know, and and I know for me, sometimes I hide that. I hide because I know what it is. So I kind of you know keep that somewhere until I'm ready for that to come out. And who's and also um who's deserving of it? I think yes, that's where I'm so valuable. It's it's so valuable. And when I say deserving of it, I'm not for me, I'm not saying, well, it's gotta be the perfect of that. No, no, it just means because you know, sometimes it's not a long-term thing. Yeah, maybe it's just a thing just for the time, and that's okay. Yeah, but whoever I give it to, mercy, ask them, call them up. No, just but um because I understand, and I'm gonna say this, and the people or the folks that I've had sexual relations with for the most part were equally as powerful. You know what I mean? So we were just, you know, it's a beautiful, beautiful. I can't believe I'm on this thing talking to you on this thing right here. Although we do talk about these conversations, so yeah, yeah. So

Body Confidence During Intimacy

Janet Hale 19:43

yeah.

Candace Patrice 19:43

Um, when you were talking about somebody seeing you, it made me think about sex with someone who loves your body like you do. So somebody who can connect with the body makes because okay, so I feel like here go feeling. I've had sex where I was more um self-conscious and then sex where I wasn't.

Janet Hale 20:17

Which one did you like the best?

Candace Patrice 20:18

Obviously, when I wasn't, when I could be like, yes, all of me. I ain't thinking about nothing but the sex, okay? But and it also made me think while you were talking about tantric sex. So

Tantric Sex And Mindful Pleasure

Candace Patrice 20:32

you're talking about how you know it's it's a dance, it's a beautiful thing. So tantric sex is an ancient Indian, slow-paced and meditative approach to intimacy that blends spirituality, sensuality, and mindfulness. It emphasizes deep connection, breathing, and energy exchange, often without a goal of orgasm. It views the entire body as sexual and aims to unite partners spiritually and energetically rather than just physically. Now, I can't imagine having all of this with somebody and not orgasm, and I'm I'm just saying.

Janet Hale 21:10

Really?

Candace Patrice 21:12

I mean, I'm sure I'm I feel like the sensation and the pleasure would be so high that the orgasm would naturally happen. Go, go, go.

Janet Hale 21:23

But it's a slow burn. Okay. It feels so it feels so good. You don't want to lose that, you know. So it's that whole like I making love can go on for hours.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah.

Janet Hale 21:42

Because you're in I'm gonna call it dance because that's how I talk. You're in the dance of it all, and so and being in that dance to orgasm would end it. You know what I mean? So I can, yeah. Um it's beautiful. Have you? Had the tantric sex. Yeah, and not no, I didn't know the name of it.

Candace Patrice 22:07

Did it end in orgasm? Probably.

Janet Hale 22:15

It probably did. But I mean, but I took it for wrote it out for as long as I could. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am.

Candace Patrice 22:26

Um, and for anybody who's made it this far into the episode, we did have um an episode with Dr. L's birth and Freddie. Um what was her last name is M-E-U-T-H. And I don't like it. But you go back into it.

Janet Hale 22:44

They talk, they are at I would love for them to come back if we can.

Candace Patrice 22:47

Yeah, yeah. Um, we had an episode with them. If you go back and look, it was about the tantric sex, it's probably in the topic. Maybe I can re put it in the show notes if I remember, which I probably won't. Sorry, guys. Just go back and look it up. Um, but look for Freddie and Els, El Beth. Um, but they talked about it. And so the I've been able to only want to have a spiritual orgasm from my mind with the thought of things, and that was that was really cool and intense, and like I don't know. I don't know. It was an interesting thing.

Janet Hale 23:29

I'm just glad that you're have having orgasms. There's so many women that um give their bodies and never experience the release of an orgasm, you know, or the or the feel-good of it all. It's just that I'm supposed to do this, but let me do this because I don't almost like in the color, was it the color purple? Where she just lay there. Yeah, that's still happening. Like, that's a thing, that's a real thing. And it took Suge to wake her up because she was dormant until that woman woke her up, yeah, yeah, yeah. And said, baby, you haven't been feeling what you need to feel. Let me help you with this. And so that is the thing. Oh, and that's why I love staying spiritually awake and spiritually alive, and just being alive, you know. Um, yes, ma'am.

When Sex Becomes Duty Or Performance

Candace Patrice 24:20

I think that um when you talk about just kind of laying there, I think there are people who end up in that space who are, I want to say Christians because of taking it the biblical, yeah, out of context. Well, I won't, I don't, I don't want to say what is or is out of context, but they're I don't want to get you troubled. But there are verses, you know, that talk about your body being your husband's and um you're supposed to, you know, do these things. So they believe that this is the only way, whether they want to or not. Now, I'm not saying that their belief is right or wrong, it's not mine. Um, even reading the scriptures, I don't believe that we have to do that that way. Not to say we're withholding, um, but there are ways to I think it's really nice when husband and wife can agree on the sex and it be good.

Janet Hale 25:23

But yeah, but go ahead. Go ahead. So, but even with, and I hear you with the um religious part of it, but I think about prostitution. I mean, you know, this is a job, baby. I need to get out here and get this thing done, you know what I mean? So that's a good thing. That is a thing too, because it's not about enjoyment, it's about getting this job done.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, right?

Janet Hale 25:45

And um, so even taking religion out of it. Um, also, I think about women being with men and faking the orgasm just to make him feel good. That's all that is. I need you to order for him to hurry up. I mean, it's both of them, it could be either one. So um, and then I I oh, it's it's good to be honest as women about those things. I just think it's so good to be honest, regardless to if it's a religious thing, whatever it is. If it if I'm not feeling it, I'm just not feeling it. So, you know, I don't want to pretend that not just in sex, but in life, period. I'm learning. Well, sex, I got a problem, but but in life, I'm learning, you know, more and more to just settle into who I am. But I've had I have people in my life to help me with that shit. Yeah. Like when I'm going off on some, you know, to help me come back to what is true to me, or them allowing me to be who I am, I'll say it that way. Put that into the sex. For whatever reason, I don't have a problem, problem in that area. I don't know what that's about. That's a good thing.

Candace Patrice 26:54

Yeah, it is. Um, because one, okay, one, I think talking it through with your partner, especially the first time, like let them know what you like and what you don't like, what feel good, what feels good, what doesn't feel good, because they don't know. They only know what they have experienced. And if your anatomy and all the things, the way you handle yourself, your body, what it needs is different, be verbal. Um, I've had the the experience of being able to be verbal, and it was very nice to say this way, that way, left, right, up, down, giddy, giddy. Uh which turned out nice. But I was gonna say, when you said I don't have a problem in that area, it's really helpful for that perspective that you have on beauty, because as I explain it to Kari, my daughter, I get to share that one, it's between adults, but also it's not a shameful thing when it is when the time comes, um, or even having to explain porn as

Talking With Kids Without Shame

Candace Patrice 28:03

an entertainment of sex. Oh, and there's that job because you talked about prostitution. There is the porn industry and what actually is happening on that screen.

Janet Hale 28:17

And also, um, and not shy away from same-sex sex. You know what I mean? Because when you talk about um being, you know, folks feeling ashamed and all that, just whatever it, oh man, man, I I am such an undercover hippie for those who don't know. Because it is what, you know, we are here to experience life. And I don't like it when I limit myself to how I feel and and all the things. You talk about, you know, sex is for adults. Well, I'm about to get kicked off the show because there some folks are doing it and they're not full adults yet. And I'm not shaming them either. I'm not shaming them, but I'm teaching. I know you want, I know you want Kamari to wait till she's 30.

Candace Patrice 29:03

Not 30, not even 30.

Janet Hale 29:05

25.

Candace Patrice 29:06

I just want her to be honest and tell me when she's ready.

Janet Hale 29:10

Like you did me.

Candace Patrice 29:12

Well, I think that's more important so that she can be prepared and I can get her the things that she needs. Because what if it is 17? What if it is 16? I don't know. It's not that that's not my goal for her. Absolutely not. But also, people do what they do when they do it, and if they don't have a safe space to talk about it, they still gonna do it.

Janet Hale 29:36

You're pretty good about being open, though. So I don't I don't know that you're gonna have any problems with her.

Candace Patrice 29:43

I hope not.

Janet Hale 29:44

In that area. Because and then, too, I also think that with mothers and daughters, that a daughter needs to see that a mom is a woman. She's not just a mother, she's a woman.

Candace Patrice 29:56

Yeah, like when your daughter catches your text messages.

Janet Hale 30:00

Oh, she did. When you text and stuff.

Candace Patrice 30:03

I said, get off my get out of my text messages. So there was that. But um, yeah, we we're pretty open, even though she is 10. Guys, you know, when we do talk about kids, kids know more than you may think they do. And asking those questions is important. I would say, and my experience, if they are if they choose to be open, don't shame them. Don't don't let them, they shouldn't be getting trouble. Educate them on what they know and give them the truth, you know, so they can create that safe space. Uh and it's, you know, you still teach the the waiting and whatever, you know, the the lessons need to be. But I wasn't 20 when I started, you know. So whenever that was, we see the point is we have to be, I believe we have to be open to what the reality of things are. And I know beating the kid is not gonna work. Not to you can't beat it out of them. You can beat the secrets he in them.

Janet Hale 31:19

Um at least that's a good way to put it.

Candace Patrice 31:22

That's the that's my belief system. I'll say that. And I know that people have different belief systems, and somebody is gonna be on here and be like, yo, Janet and Candace got him. And somebody else is gonna be like, Janet and Candace, they're crazy.

Janet Hale 31:34

Some people are gonna let's just say, Janet, really?

Candace Patrice 31:38

You know, um, but yeah, I was watching a show yesterday.

Consent, Coercion, And What Counts

Candace Patrice 31:44

It was a Netflix documentary on the Nature Boy. I can't find it.

Janet Hale 31:50

I've been trying to find it.

Candace Patrice 31:51

It's it's somewhere. Um, but one of the girls was talking because he, I guess he ended up being convicted of rape as well as a list of other things. Um but one of the the girls talked about how he kept saying, I'm not gonna rape you, I'm not gonna rape you, but he kept trying to make her have sex with him. And to the point where she eventually gave in. Um, but it was still oh, and then he did use revenge porn on her after that. Oh, so even the giving in for the mental part, it's go ahead.

Janet Hale 32:31

Yeah, because when you said that, and I I want to watch this too, because they're talking about it on you know social media. Okay. Um, when you said he kept telling her I'm not gonna rape you, in my opinion, and I'm not trying to have a PhD and all, because we know Doctor, what's her name? Brian. Anyway, um uh, but when someone said I'm not trying to rape you, but then you're still raping me.

Candace Patrice 32:53

Yeah.

Janet Hale 32:54

Because to me, that's what I'm hearing, I haven't seen it yet. That whole I'm not raping you, but can I, you know, do whatever in that whole pressure, I think the the raping in my as far as I'm concerned, started with the I'm not raping you. Yeah, okay.

Candace Patrice 33:08

Yeah, and I think that that's where she was in court talking about that. And I want to say once he was convicted, the girl's like, somebody finally believes me, or something like that. Um, I know, right? Because then there's the shame. So let's talk a little bit about sex shame then. Um molestation, uh, rape, or the giving in to the words so that you don't feel like it was that. Or let me ask you this what would you consider rape?

Janet Hale 33:46

Like you said, even the saying that that's what he did. Um someone not even aware that they're having sex, you got them all doped up. We always can go to the brutal part, you know, the the one in the movies that they always show.

Candace Patrice 34:04

Um forced after a no. Forcing someone after they said no. Yeah, forcing them into a yes after they've said no.

Janet Hale 34:16

Right. Um, but the thing that you made me think about was the shame part and a molestation and all those things.

Sex Shame After Assault Or Abuse

Janet Hale 34:23

And I've talked to folks about this. When a person has been molested, right? The molestation takes place, and the child is keeping the other person secret. And so there goes some of the shame. And there's another part of shame, people don't talk about it, but is when the child enjoys it. Oh, and so people don't want to talk about, you know, so-and-so kept coming in my room and touching me. If he or she knows how to touch you, he or she knows how to make you feel good. Wow. And so that is the part that folks don't get to. You know, they did this and that to me. Well, then why did you let it keep happening? You know, that whole, so that's a form of shame. That's really something that's not talked about often.

Candace Patrice 35:16

Falling in love with the abuser.

Janet Hale 35:19

I don't know that you fall in love with the abuse.

Candace Patrice 35:20

No, I'm saying that's another sector. Yeah. Because that's I want to say in that documentary, the girl talked about how he would tell her, but you're in love with me. You're in love with me, to the point where she began, she became warped. She's like, it was like falling in love with your abuser. She actually um compared it to that. And then that's another form of shame.

Janet Hale 35:44

Yeah. Um, he's just what do you have? A whole bunch of people he would cult or stuff. What is what was he up to? Yeah, it was okay. I um I do want to watch that. Um I'm what I'm talking about though, I'm talking about um, you know, you have a home, you have a household, you know, and everything seems perfect on the outside. That's why I don't like shit that looks perfect. Anyway, but um, and then um uh oh D dad is molesting, right? And when mom goes to sleep, dad creeps in the room, right? So you already know this shouldn't be happening. In no way should this be happening. Um I lost my train of thought, girl. I'm sorry.

Candace Patrice 36:34

I don't know, but I made me want to ask you this question. What about the parent who allows it or pretends to ignore it?

Janet Hale 36:43

That's a whole thing, and I I don't know, but I suspect that um they're just there some folks are just afraid to let go. Some folks, this is the only thing I know. Some folks say, Yeah, do it to my daughter because I'd keep you here. I mean, that just turns into so many things to me. Um and I and it's unfortunate for that person to be trapped in that kind of mindset. I think it's sad for everybody involved. Yeah, it's just sad because it's all sick. Yeah. It's sick. Mom who knows he's creeping in that room, dad who's doing the creeping, the victim is the kid. What about who's holding everyone's secret? Pardon me?

Candace Patrice 37:43

But if it's not a kid.

Janet Hale 37:45

What do you mean?

Candace Patrice 37:46

Like an adult who's um having this happen to them, someone knowing what's going on, or you know, the give me an example. Let's say the uh the cult. How about that?

Janet Hale 38:01

That guy.

Candace Patrice 38:01

Yeah, the people who knew that these things were happening and turned the turned a blind eye or participating in um let's say the the watchers. Yeah, the watchers. Like you hear about maybe celebrities or something who take people on a road and drug them, uh, or not drug them, but it's like everybody outside knows what's happening, or you're being watched, you're not drugged, then you've been blackmailed for something. Um, I actually read about the Jim Jones case where he was.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah, Kool-Aid.

Candace Patrice 38:43

But he had them sign false testimonies that they have molested their children so for blackmail.

Janet Hale 38:52

Literally, just these kind of things in my mind, they're not new. Like um, this dude, who is his name on Netflix?

Candace Patrice 39:00

Um I don't know his name, but the nature boy. What's the name of it?

Janet Hale 39:02

Nature Boy. This is just not new. This is this is just stuff that happens. It's it just happens. Um, and unfortunately, folks get caught up. How they get caught up, I don't know. I don't have the answers. I I just don't, I don't know. Um, but they do. They get caught up. But you mentioned what about the watchers? Um, now if the why I don't, I gotta watch this thing because I don't want to speak on something, but I'm gonna go to celebrities who are getting caught up and they were doing this and they were doing that, and this person's going down for a million years. And for me, I say, what about the folks who made the appointments, who got the girls there, knew what he was doing, kept other people out so that no one can see what was happening? Why is that one individual the only one going down? That's you know, because everybody was would you consider that a part of the rape?

Candace Patrice 39:55

Yeah. Because when I had asked, I had asked earlier about would you consider that a part of the rape?

Janet Hale 40:04

Yes, Oprah Winfrey. Yes.

Candace Patrice 40:10

Well, I thank you for the comparison.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah.

Candace Patrice 40:17

I'll take that.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yes, me.

Why People Stay And How They Leave

Candace Patrice 40:23

So I guess um as we I want to pivot a little bit too what is it is an answer for someone struggling with these things for the the I guess victims?

Janet Hale 40:42

So here's the thing, I'm I'm going, I'm in this phase of my development with um expert advice from folks who aren't experts, and I know we're not, we we don't claim to be. Not at all. Um and you know, I d you know, I don't know the answer. You know what I mean? I don't know um what makes a person, you know, tick in a way that would want them, make them or yeah, make them molest children.

Candace Patrice 41:16

I don't know. No, not the abusers. I'm asking about the what the victims. Yes. Like what is the question? What is the solution for them to to get out, to get help, to not see that? Or even not fall into.

Janet Hale 41:33

That's tricky. That's tricky. It that's so tricky. What does your mind because I could come up with now? Listen, hear me out. I could come up with something and say, and then you need to do AB and C. No, because I can't do that, because if I do that A, B, and C that you're telling me to do, I'm gonna put myself in more danger. So it's so personal. Okay, you know, it's just so um, and I share with you on this um platform, living next door and hearing the grown folks talk about this girl who was being molested by her father. I remember that as a kid. It's little pieces of it. I remember, and as I got older, I was like, what in the hell? Why was I? Why were they all? Everybody knew. The grown-ups were talking about it, right? And then I went years later, the lady, she's she's dead now, but across the street, and I was sitting there and I was talking to her one day, and I said, Oh, I have a question. Because she's the only one living that was in that. I said, you know, when that situation was going on with someone, so I said her name, and everybody was talking about what he was doing. I don't understand how that was happening. And she just said, Well, you know, we just we didn't see it. I don't know what she said, but that's how they coped in that culture. That is, it is what it is. When I think about how in the um in the south, and I'm not saying all southerners, but in the south, um fathers were getting their daughters pregnant. You know what I mean? And so the family just figured it out. Sometimes they sent the daughter off somewhere to have the kid. It's just a whole lot. Now, for those who can get therapy, right? Not everybody have access, then do that. And then you gotta watch that because not every therapist is a good therapist. Very true. You know what I mean? So it's just it gets complicated. Um, and then you maybe you have an auntie or somebody that you can talk to, and the auntie may even know that it's happening. But the auntie is gonna do the best she can to make it safer for you. The auntie may do something like, Well, let's see if you can spend the weekend this, you know, over the week, you know, spend the weekend with me and get a break from him. People have different ways of coping. And I think in our culture, now we've gotten so, and I'm and I'm starting not to use a lot of terms, and I'm like, we just coming up with shit like we know who we're talking about. No, no, no, no, no. Figured out people find different ways to do it. People um some are fortunate enough to get into therapy and get a good therapist because not all of them are great. Um, some of them have family members that may have rescued them and taken them away. Um unfortunately, well, unfortunately or unfortunately, the perpetrator dies. I mean, you know, and then that's the end of that. But it's just different ways of um figuring that out. And so I'm not quick to give out advice. I I will give out different, talk about different circumstances and recognizing the difficulty that it is for someone who's dealing with a situation where it's abusive. And, you know, where do you move? Where do you go? We talk um shelters, you know, which people people now they say unhoused, you can't say homeless. I don't know where that happened, but um, you don't have them, yeah, that's a new thing. Okay. Um, shelters and and things like that. The resources are limited, they are just limited. So what is what do you do? You you figure it out. You have to, and that's the thing about we have to figure it out. And if we're fortunate, sometimes we have someone that can come and pull us out. Yeah, and sometimes people are just roughing it out here in these streets, they're doing the best they can. And hopefully that person who survived the madness don't repeat it. You know what I mean? Just don't repeat it. I don't know if I answered your question.

Candace Patrice 45:34

I think you did. It comes down to paying attention to your individual circumstance and trying not to put yourself in more danger than what you're already in. So I guess the answer to me is to ask yourself tough questions. Um and what you are willing to give up, what you are willing to endure. Um, because, and I say that when I say what you're willing to give up, um you know that leaving the situation could make you unhoused or take away your financial stability. Um, because that's a reason why people like I just don't have anywhere else to go. Um, so I have to endure what I'm going through in order to get from A to B, whatever that looks like. Um, or they're going to work and they have to come back to the abuse. And it's if I, you know, or maybe it's I tried to leave, they found me, and I feel like if I leave, I'll die, you know. So I'm sorry.

Janet Hale 46:42

Go ahead. And sometimes, you know, here's the thing about all this sometimes you leave and you go back. Seven times sometimes, right? Or more. Sometimes you leave, and then by the time the fifth time, people sick of you. Yeah. Well, we tried to help her. It's like, look, I have a condition that causes me to keep going back to whatever this is, you know.

Candace Patrice 47:03

No, that's that's real. That's so real. Um, but I think that's a this is a great opportunity to for anybody who knows someone going through that. Resist the judgment if at all costs, resist the judge. Even if you are, you have reached that boiling point of I can't do it anymore, just resist the judgment. Like I don't know the answer for what you should do, or if you are the the bystander and you've had enough of seeing it. Because that can also be a mental health shift for the person who has to watch, because you know, we want to save, and you know, maybe you were the one who jumped in time one and two, and you're like, I'm not jumping in that time three, four, and five. Um, and you have a right to not do that too, and that's hard to hear, hard to understand, hard for the abusee to accept, you know. So I guess neither one of us have answers.

Janet Hale 48:04

It's just conversation. And I think, yeah, excuse me. But I think about um these uh experts is talking and oh, and then you should do, and then you should no. You know, someone who's listening, they want to hear, like, hell, help, you know, what can you say, even if it's just you don't have a damn answer. But you know I'm out here. You know I'm here and you know I can't do anything about it right now. And you know, I encourage anybody that can figure, they have to, you know, figure out whatever they need to figure out for themselves. Because I understand that sometimes we're just out here in these streets, just really trying to make it. And um, and all the experts in the world and all the things don't always have the answer to your specific particular circumstance.

Red Flags, Neuroplasticity, And Patterns

Candace Patrice 49:00

I will also say though, um, if things look like they may be making a turn in a relationship where you have not been abused, um pay attention to the red flags.

Janet Hale 49:12

I agree with that.

Candace Patrice 49:13

Yeah. Um, and trusting your gut. Something don't feel good, or maybe you heard from somebody else. Well, X, Y, and Z, I'm not saying you have to believe a past person, but pay attention to the signs, you know. So if there is a way for someone who is not there, I agree. Just pay that attention. I don't know.

Janet Hale 49:34

Oh, that's good, Ken.

Candace Patrice 49:35

Oh, thank you.

Janet Hale 49:36

It's really good. Yeah. That's good. If you can, yeah, you can prevent it and you see it coming. Or any sign, because sometimes just to be the little sign, and we'd be like, oh, that's okay. Yeah, that was good, Ken.

Candace Patrice 49:51

Yeah, and you know, um, I will also just go ahead and throw this in. I'm no expert. But the neuroplasticity of our brains, doing something over and over again, is telling our brains that it's okay. It makes it easier to jump back and fall into certain um patterns, even for the abuser, once it's done and it's a you allow a second time, now it's oh, I know what they'll accept. Um, so thinking of that too, just how the reward system in the brain works for in different individuals. And I think we are our own greatest self-study.

Janet Hale 50:32

I agree.

Candace Patrice 50:33

So pay attention to yourself.

Janet Hale 50:36

I agree with that.

Sex Addiction, Resources, And Closing

Janet Hale 50:37

I do. But there's this movie. Um, some folks had me watch it, it's so good. It's thank you for sharing. Uh-huh. And it's about sex addiction. Um, and um it's I think it came out 2013, and I watched it. I started watching it last night, but I finished it this morning. It's really um interesting, and just the different things, you know, the different stages of dealing with um the sexual addiction wasn't around, you know, rape or you know, that kind of thing, but it was still around um um and appropriate behaviors around sex, you know? Um, and then to watch the group of folks, they have like four different folks' lives that they're talking about, how they're dealing with the addiction. One um had he was a sponsor and then he fell off and uh discovered and went back to being okay. Um one was a young guy who was overweight and just he couldn't get it together, but he runs into a woman, her name Pink, the sinker's in it. Oh, okay. Pink, and she's been his the friend, and um and how they develop a friendship that's sexless and how they loved each other. Um it's just all the things I just thought it was it was masterful, just excellent. So for all of you listening, thanks for sharing it's a movie. Um on on on prime. Thank you.

Candace Patrice 52:15

Um, I did want to also leave a message to the abuser. If you're listening and you have been, you have partaken in hurting someone else. I ask that you take some time to get your own help and seek what it is that you need as well. I don't know what that looks like for you. I don't know what your past is that drove you to where you are. Anyone who's going through any of the things that we talked about, even call it a national suicide prevention lifeline, at 988, 24 hours, seven days a week. And then on the control on the total flip end side, those of you who are in healthy relationships, enjoy your sex, enjoy your sex. Those of you who are abstaining or celibate, go with it. It's your life, stick to it, stand by it, don't bend for anybody but yourself, and because it's your own thought processes. So that's my little spiel to that. Is there anything you want to leave everybody with? No, I think I've said it all. Well, in that case, like, share, follow essential motivation.com. Um, leave us a message, hit the text button, support the show. There's a lot of different things, check the show notes. But remember to always love hard, forgive often, and laugh frequently. Bye, guys. Bye bye.