Discovering Tranquility: A Journey in Embracing Surrender and Overcoming Challenges

Therapy Thursday!

Have you ever felt the profound peace that comes from surrendering control? This episode is a heart-to-heart conversation between myself, your host Candace Fleming, and my mother, Janet Hale, as we shed light on our journeys to discovering tranquility in letting go. We unmask the beauty of embracing surrender and the freedom it bestows, demonstrating how it has played out in our lives, from giving up cable to learning to release control as parents. 

There's transformative power in facing the raging storm of loss and challenges, and still finding peace within the chaos. Janet and I share our deeply personal journeys through grief, struggle, and the aftermath of divorce, underscoring the pivotal role of love in these challenging times. As we talk about the heart-rending loss of my brother, we highlight the potential of a peaceful mindset and problem-solving approach in navigating through such tumultuous periods. 

We then dive into a profound exploration of love's influence—particularly self-love—in finding and sustaining inner peace. With love as a common denominator for achieving tranquility, we reflect on its biblical significance and the role of non-judgmental, supportive individuals in our lives who aid in refilling our cup of peace. We also shed light on overcoming the heavy burden of shame through honesty and non-judgmental listening, emphasizing the value of trusting our journey. Lastly, we offer guidance on not just surviving but thriving on life's arduous journey, underscoring the importance of love, forgiveness, and purposeful living.

Chapters

• 0:07 Finding Peace in Surrendering Control
• 14:47 Finding Peace Amid Loss and Challenges
• 23:53 Finding Peace Through Love and Self-Love
• 37:38 Overcoming Shame and Finding Peace
• 46:47 Surviving and Living on the Journey

Transcript

Candace: 0:07

Hello and welcome back to Essential Mental Healing, where I am, your host, candace Lemon, and join me today, every Thursday, every other Thursday, my lovely and wonderful and beautiful and magnificent mother, janet Hale, Hello, hello, hello everyone, hi Candace. How are you doing today?

Janet: 0:33

I'm doing very well today, thank you. Thank you for asking.

Candace: 0:37

Very well, that's great.

Janet: 0:40

I worked today and I was able to teach and communicate with others and learn from others, and it was very, very enlightening.

Candace: 0:52

What's one thing you learned?

Janet: 0:54

It was very engaging, pardon me.

Candace: 0:55

What's one thing you learned today?

Janet: 0:58

I learned that when people take time out to take a look at themselves, an honest look at themselves, it can be quite comical, no matter what the situation is, it's just kind of comical. And part of that would be looking at children as teenagers and how, sometimes as parents, sometimes we get a teenager oh they're so, oh, a teenager. And then I'm like remember when we were teenagers and we all had to laugh about it, yeah, yeah.

Candace: 1:35

Okay, that's cool. I'm having a pretty good day. Today was my goddaughter's half birthday. She's turned six months today.

Janet: 1:45

Happy six months.

Candace: 1:47

I know right, just so happy and full of life, that was pretty awesome, so I got to do that and that brought joy to me. Oh, and her mother's birthday was Thursday, so we got to do some just dance and play.

Janet: 2:05

Mario.

Candace: 2:06

Kart, because I really want to play Mario Kart and I was really excited about playing Mario Kart and it was a good time. So we did that, so we are going to go ahead. Well, first, if you haven't done so already, you should have already shared the show with someone, liked and subscribed, to make sure you're getting more content every other Thursday. So let me just say that, because I always said at the end and you guys have probably forgotten at that point, so make sure you do so. But we're going to jump into our topic, which is a pretty interesting topic and it's actually a request from a listener.

Candace: 2:44

So we are doing finding peace in a season of surrendering control. Whoo, a season of surrendering control. And I, you know, I don't think you understand you're in that season until you're doing it. Like it's one of those things where you want to be able to say I remember being younger and asking someone else, like how do you stay so cool? Like I just would have been so upset if blah, blah, blah, and then, like it comes with time or, you know, comes with age and things like that. And now getting to some of those milestones, where it's like oh, I'd let that go a little bit.

Candace: 3:27

And it's a continuous journey, but being able to see myself do that in certain areas is pretty cool. No, we're forever evolving, forever figuring it out, and maybe you get it in one area and not another area. So what does surrendering control look like to you?

Janet: 3:54

Well, there's a there. I have a few examples, but the latest one would be for me giving up cable, and anyone who knows me knows that I'm one of the last to do so. A lot of people have been streaming for years and would talk to me and I was no, I'm going to keep the cable, I'm just keeping everything. And I finally let it go. And because I thought that, you know, that was a form of control for me to be able to have that, I thought I would miss it. I thought it was like going to be the end of part of my life, I don't know what I'm going to do. And then, when it happened, there was actually a little taste of freedom in it. I did not miss it as much as I thought I would At first. I did because I had to adjust to, you know, the remote control and different things of that nature.

Candace: 4:55

And which app to go to.

Janet: 4:59

That was funny. Anyway, yes, and the apps and different things of that nature. But finding out that streaming is just a beautiful, beautiful thing and I understand why more and more people were streaming for years before I started. I totally understand it. A lot of my TV shows that I like to watch come on Peacock and I was always. I already had Hulu what is it Hulu, netflix and Prime, so then they have live TV on there. It's just really cool.

Candace: 5:37

I'm really good. You have the live TV package.

Janet: 5:42

I've been watching something live, so I don't know, I guess.

Candace: 5:45

I don't Something on Peacock.

Janet: 5:47

No, it's another something else, something else that says live TV. I'm still experimenting and learning and finding out new things, but I'm also learning that I don't watch as much TV as I thought I did. It is amazing, because those of you who know me know that I like to come home, relax. I have a favorite chair of mine that I sit in and if I've had a busy day, a Lot of times I'll come home from work and I'll sit in that chair and start watching TV and Before you know it, I'm sleep and, as you know, it gets dark at four o'clock, it seems, and I wake up.

Janet: 6:28

It's nighttime. I'm like, oh man, okay, and then I'm up, I pedal around the house a little bit and then I get ready for bed and then I'm in the bed and I turn the TV on because I think I'm gonna last another couple hours, and that's usually 15 minutes, and I'm not watching TV. So I don't watch TV as much as I thought I did, probably not as much as I did when I had cable, but I recognize that I didn't watch it as much. And Finding peace and surrendering control, I think, is a really good Statement For mothers, for parents who have children, because you guys are our greatest teachers when it comes to letting go and Surrendering do you because we cannot control you.

Janet: 7:20

We can direct you, we can advise you, but we cannot control you.

Candace: 7:30

When was one of the first times that you remember releasing some form of control?

Janet: 7:37

the first time and for many of you who listens know that I am in recovery and the Serenity prayers are biggie, you know. I think it should be for everyone, no matter what your religion is. Please look it up, check it out. You can't hear me.

Candace: 7:55

Do you know it?

Janet: 7:57

God grabbed me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can. And the wisdom, the wisdom to know the difference.

Candace: 8:10

Mm-hmm. That's it. How long did it take those words to sit with you?

Janet: 8:16

It came pretty early. Your brother was my teacher and that some, looking at some of his behaviors and some of the things that he did, and he would blatantly let me know you're not gonna be able to control this, I'm not the one. So, mom, I don't know what to tell you, but it's, you can't control me. And I remember when, when it hit me, I Was sad and then shortly after that, there was a little relief. So the peace, the peace.

Candace: 8:56

So the peace, the peace comes when you Surrender the control, when you don't Find peace. In order to surrender the control, no that's right.

Janet: 9:11

It's once. That's right, once you let it go and you recognize that you let it go.

Candace: 9:18

Yeah.

Janet: 9:23

The peace comes what what, and when we realize that, for me, other people may have their own beliefs and that's fine, but that we're not in control. In my opinion, some folks may feel differently and I'm open to that. Things are gonna happen the way they're going to happen and be open and accepting to those things and be grateful for every moment that we have.

Janet: 9:51

You know, you Weren't a poor baby. I'm gonna say that because you were not. You were a child that Pretty much did things the way. Every mother probably looked at you and said well, I wish my kid was like that. Oh yeah, I'm being not understanding, though, but there's another side to that, and and it's something that I've talked to you about Is because you were not as needy. I felt that I didn't give. I felt that I didn't give you as much as you need it, because you are not. You didn't display yourself as needy, but you need it as well, and so it took me to be a full grown up, have a full sponsor, do a full four step.

Janet: 10:48

But don't you think that I got things by being able to go?

Candace: 10:52

to work with you, like those were. You did get gifts. You were gifted.

Janet: 10:58

You were gifted even the daycare that was at your job. I appreciate that.

Candace: 11:03

Yeah, like it didn't feel like oh, I've got to go to work with mom and go to that daycare.

Janet: 11:08

It was like oh.

Candace: 11:09

I get to go to work with mom right and find the boy. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna go to work with mom.

Janet: 11:15

Right and find the boy and go to that, yeah, you know. Yeah, we remember his name and everything.

Candace: 11:21

Prince.

Janet: 11:22

Prince and then you didn't let me know that the dog was named prince because of him. Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I appreciate you saying that because we did spend time together. That is true, that is true, and I and for those things I am grateful um, but you know, I do wish that I had Spend more time um with you, even though we did spend a lot of time. We did, we did.

Candace: 11:55

I thought like I had a lot of good balance. I do.

Janet: 12:01

Yeah, but I think when people are honest with the, you know, when we're honest about things, it's okay to look at things that we did not do correctly or as correct as we would have liked it to be, and be honest with oneself.

Candace: 12:18

Yeah and for me hold on to that, when I'm literally saying I felt like I had a lot of time, wouldn't that at least?

Janet: 12:28

That makes me feel good. That makes me feel good and I'm glad that you feel that way. But there are things that I know in my heart, okay, okay, and it's not that I'm holding on to it, I'm like about to fall out of this chair and fall on the floor. No, it's not that at all. No, I mean, you know, done a lot of work, you know a lot of therapy, a lot of, whole lot of things, but, um, you know, just that whole surrendering, surrendering, just Surrender is such a powerful word to me, and I've said that a lot. Um, because it is when we realize we don't have any control. And gratitude, be grateful, just grateful. Grateful that we're on this podcast together. You got your hand up. You about to say something.

Candace: 13:21

I just I have a question how did you find the peace In your decision to file for a divorce?

Janet: 13:38

Hmm, okay, the peace in that For me is recognizing how much I was not at peace within the marriage and having to make a decision for me and only for me. I had raised my two children and, as many know, I got extremely ill and in that I had to ask the question do you want to live or do you want to survive? Which?

Janet: 14:25

one is it Exist or be alive? Which one is it? And I wanted to do more than exist. I wanted to live, and in living I find peace and listen. You guys, for all of you who are listening. The income changed for me, A lot changed for me, but I was more at peace. I am still at peace. I put my Christmas tree up today. I bought myself a guy.

Candace: 14:53

How did you get from the downstairs?

Janet: 14:54

to the upstairs Me, me, me, me very carefully. Yes, I did, I did go, I sure did. But I say all that to say because when you talk about divorce and peace and different things of that nature, you get a marriage. There are some things that come with it, like he would have carried up the tree. You mean I put Bram, bring up the tree, and then, whatever you come, I forget to say something and I'm like I want my tree out. Okay, so I go to plug it up. There are no lights. Not a light came on, not one light. I said I jiggled it around, I said, oh okay, there'll be your Monday. I'm going to put a string. There'll be light up Monday.

Candace: 15:43

So you got some outside lights to wrap around.

Janet: 15:45

We just going to work it out.

Candace: 15:48

Because it's all about finding solutions, we don't stay in the problem.

Janet: 15:51

Solutions and that part finding solutions and figuring things out. And when we are at a peaceful state, our mind is at peace, we figure things out easier.

Candace: 16:07

You have a lot of solutions that people need to hear, so I have another question about when you found peace. Okay, go ahead. How about when you found peace and losing your son?

Janet: 16:27

The peace in that. Okay, you guys haven't heard me say this in a minute, but I'm not religious, but I'm going to talk about that peace.

Candace: 16:39

Okay.

Janet: 16:41

So the last, and I laid my eyes on Brandon. At least twice, at least every two years. I had to see Brandon. I had to go see him, he had to come see me. Something's going to happen.

Candace: 16:49

Because he lived in Texas.

Janet: 16:51

He lived in Texas, so I had to see him the last visit when he was here with his wife, who I love too, and she's no longer with us as well.

Candace: 17:02

And you got to go and some niece daughters.

Janet: 17:05

We got some niece daughters too. We got some funny stories too, but we're not going to get into those Because they were they were a lot, but finding the peace with his death and losing him was.

Janet: 17:22

I always felt like God had given me a love letter To say goodbye During that last visit. So many magical things happened during that visit. I still be sitting back like I don't even. He was doing things I didn't even understand. I'm like where is he coming from? When I say he was saying some profound, beautiful things to me, I was like what is this? Okay, but I was enjoying it too, though I wasn't that stuck up. I'm like what is this? I wasn't doing it while I was on my way.

Janet: 18:04

So, and you know, and after I will grieve him forever. A parent will grieve that, I believe, their children forever. There will always be a grieving, but the peace in it was being able to say goodbye, and I feel like we both were able to say goodbye without saying goodbye, like I didn't know it'd be the last time I see him Right, and the peace in it is I know that I gave him his flowers while he was here and that he gave me flowers too, and so for that there's some peace in it, for being able to own my part in things that I knew no better, it's okay, and for him and I to be able to sit down and have a conversation about some things, and I was able to go through some really deep situations and make peace with him prior to him leaving here. So when he left here, I'm not going to say I was ready, but I was thankful for the time I had with him.

Candace: 19:16

I was just grateful. Another question yeah, you have experience in wisdom and life and you have experience in peace, which? You have had to find several times throughout your life.

Janet: 19:32

This is true.

Candace: 19:34

How do you find peace in losing your two best friends?

Janet: 19:41

Pretty much the same way with Brenda. My two best friends knew me inside and out. There was no judgment in our friendship and we were all different. I was always the homebody. Everybody knew that Janet was the homebody. One of them had a mouth on her and you know who that one is Was right.

Janet: 20:16

And the other one was the in between girl. She was the in between girl, and so the piece that I have with them is knowing that. I had two women in my life that knew me from me. That knew me when I dropped out of high school. That knew me when I had a child at 17. That knew me when I had to get up and try to go back to school. One of them lived long enough to see me get my master's, but knew me before all those things that happened. Knew me when I got a work, then Knew me when I was struggling with addiction and loved me anyway. So the peace come with knowing and I say to be loved, to be loved. There's nothing like it, and so that brings me peace. I think that's it. It's the love, knowing that I was loved.

Candace: 21:27

I'm going to go ahead and stick my head out on a limb and say that's going to be the same for losing parents. Can we talk about your journey? To finding the peace when did you realize you had peace and you can pick one or two to talk about specifically on that journey, because we can all. Because you mentioned parents, I'm going to go to my mother, okay.

Janet: 21:55

So, my mom, you met my mom. I'm going to go to my mother. So my mom, you met my mom.

Candace: 22:03

I did.

Janet: 22:04

My mother was a jazzy. My mom was a firecracker. My mother was a beautiful woman.

Janet: 22:13

And she was a mouthy woman and she would talk about things. She was straightforward with things. She didn't care nothing about what she had to say. She was going to say it and you were going to listen, or she was going to catch you, chase you down and tie you down and make you listen. The thing with making peace with losing my mother was knowing that I had given her so much love that she knew when she left here that Janet loved her.

Janet: 22:46

And I knew how much she loved me Because, see, there's a story that has never been told. Well, that's been told, but not, I don't think, on the podcast. My mother had me when she was young and my mother had given me away and she left me for a couple of days and she had to come back and get me. She came back and she got me. This is a story my mom told. It's always good to talk to these mommas and these daddies, because they'd be man, you listen to them, you'd be like, oh really, you were really left with somebody and I had to come back and get you.

Candace: 23:28

I said oh.

Janet: 23:30

I'm glad you came back.

Candace: 23:31

Right right.

Janet: 23:34

What I loved about it is that with mommas, she felt vulnerable enough to be a woman, meaning her flaws and all Like this is it? This is the story, this is how this goes, but she always loved me.

Candace: 23:53

So I'm finding a very common ground on your way of finding peace. And it sounds like it's the love that you get. Love brings peace.

Janet: 24:09

Yes.

Candace: 24:10

It's also said in the Bible that love conquers all. It's said. I mean, we can go and pull it up. I know you can Straight there, you know, but love is a through line to help with peace, which is a great way to get to peace. It is, what about those who don't feel like they have love? Like, well, if you could give someone advice, if you know someone who's dealt with it, or anything that can help their journey towards peace without love whether that's self love, or they don't feel like they have love from the outside.

Candace: 24:56

It's why why don't I have, why don't I have love? I can give love, but I can't receive love or those who feel like people keep abandoning them, what do?

Janet: 25:11

go ahead. I think first of all, we must take a deep dive into self. Okay, so I shared. I was a. I remember covering up all of it and for years I numbed out those feelings of feeling rejected, that I'd never fit in. I still don't fit in, but now I feel like it's a cool thing. But back then I thought it was a thing.

Janet: 25:39

So, finding that, and then, after you know, getting sober, and then finding or my people finding me, I don't know how it goes. It's like light attracts light. You start finding these people and, of course, not every relationship is meant to stay forever, but we have to get be okay with that. It's like, okay, but what did I get out of it? What are some of the lessons that I learned from it? So I would say for those who are having a hard time with the peace is if there's anything in you that you feel needs some work, find a way to work through it there. Whatever it is that people do, you will do all kinds of things whatever works for you and then, once you do that, start putting yourself in areas that are comfortable, where you know that you are loved. I never believe that a person should be in the environment and they don't feel wanted. If that's just I, just that. There's no peace in that for me and I don't know how it can be for anyone else.

Candace: 26:50

So that would be my answer. It still comes down to love at the end of the day, and it's self love. It starts with the end because once you can forgive yourself of this you can begin to forgive others.

Candace: 27:07

It makes me think of how, when we talk about being our own entities in this universe, you don't have to do it a way that someone else does it. You do it your own way, and sometimes you step back and say I need, I have to go on this journey in order to get to a destination that I want to get to. You know, and you take yourself on that journey and there is so much power and peace on the journey as you find small discoveries, and I know for me it feels like there's like a little pinch of light and then there's more light and it gets brighter and it gets brighter and then, like you say, light attracts light. You begin to go out in the world and you begin to attract other people who are either on the same journey as you or who have been through the journey, and the journey I'm talking about is towards peace.

Candace: 28:07

You know who can help you along the way and listen to you and a lot of those people who have inner peace are those who, who can I don't know they can do so much. You have your own inner peace. You shine back out, give back out you give to, you can kind of just feel other people because you're light and I don't know. It's just a whole journey all in itself.

Janet: 28:39

You know, I want to use my sponsor without using her name, okay, and because she is one of those people that you're talking about for me.

Janet: 28:48

So and she helps center me and everything. I mean mind telling me stuff. I'm like you know I really need you, but okay, you know we ride with whatever's going on. However, when she's talking to me, I know it's coming from a place of love. Yeah, even when I'll be I don't always agree, she knows it I'll be like okay, but I know she's coming from a place of love. Whenever she picks up that, I'm feeling a certain kind of way. She's like baby, you know, I only tell me this because I love you. Okay, I'm okay. I still don't want to hear it, but I'm okay, yeah.

Janet: 29:25

And a lot of times I have to come back to her and say you know, you were right about that. So it's having someone or having people around that you can go to that sometimes to help refill you, to give it back, like, help fill up that cup again, cuz sometimes I come, you know it goes down a little bit. Sometimes you need somebody to help fill it back up, or more than one person, and so I've been fortunate enough in my life to have that. What you had to end up you're about to say earlier what I was gonna say.

Candace: 30:03

Most people who have been through that and found their peace are the most non-judgmental people too that they're safe. You know you go couple things, you come out you have a different outlook on life. You realize that everyone has their own journey and no matter where they are on the journey.

Candace: 30:22

You allow them to be exactly where they are exactly and sometimes that does look like a step forward, a different, a step in the different direction forward. You know, either way you got to be where they are, even if that means it looks backwards to you yeah but it's still forward for them in their journey to discover. It's their journey and it's about being up, letting them be a part of their own journey, not the one you think looks good on them right because that's not your journey it's not my journey at all it's not my, because my journey was a journey.

Janet: 31:00

It still is a journey how about? This though what's that?

Candace: 31:05

the journey when you're affected by it. So let's say, husband and wife, two different journeys but, whatever one of their journeys is is affecting the other one yes what do we do in that case?

Janet: 31:24

hmm, it's a good question. Do you mean why you're still in it?

Janet: 31:29

still in it okay, because, because I have something to say about it, cuz you're not been married two times, for anybody who wants to know anyway oh, yeah, and then so so, yeah, I want to answer that, because the journey for me in these marriages, regardless whether you end up with the person divorce from the person, however it go, you still learn from each other. You're gonna learn from each other and we need. We may not realize that in the time that we're learning. However, I will say this I was married to your dad for almost 30 years okay and my journey was my journey, his journey was his journey. You know the poor guy. I don't think he liked me, but he married me.

Janet: 32:36

But anyway, but there were so many things and I think about it now and I go there was a so many things that I learned in that marriage, you know, and I learned so much from it. And I remember just, and it and it's weird because I go back he kind of remind me a mama or something. I'm something going on with that too, because it helps. I go back to something I, like Charles said. I remember when he said and you should say this to me, janet, I want you to know how to do this, because I want to always be here mm-hmm actually it's so mad.

Candace: 33:10

I said why do?

Janet: 33:11

you say that he said cuz I may not always be here. I want to learn. I never did learn how to turn to do what I am fix a tire. You want me to know how to do tires? I like no, okay, but I did learn a few things. Okay, I killed my own buzz.

Candace: 33:30

Now that's quite me, at least 12 inches long, that the centerp right.

Janet: 33:42

Yeah, it was over my bed. Oh yeah go. I was like oh, only one in the house. So you know, in the, in the marriage and the journey, even though you feel like you're going in different directions, I believe you're both going in the same direction, and what I mean by that is self-discovery mm-hmm and so that is the piece of it.

Janet: 34:19

And when I think about him and he was a booger, he's a booger but when I think about him there were certain parts of him that protected me from some certain parts of the world. Okay, and I remember he said that one time and I was like, oh, get away from me. But he, but he in his own way, cuz he knew he was like Janet, look you green, so green, I don't even know and I talk like I'm big stuff, y'all anyway, but he knew he was like Santa, just whatever with that.

Janet: 35:01

So I just think you're, you know, and a lot of times in these marriages were on the same path and that's self-discovery. It's self-discovery and it's learning from one another. Now for me, he was gone. I went, damn, he was right about. He was right about so many things that I can't even I know. He I know if the spirits be running around and he's looking at me to my toes, you that's okay. So I think that's how you find the fine, find the peace. You know what I mean with my first husband finding peace, and in that, and that was just we were young and all that. But the peace in that one was because we were so young and with him we was just young, we was just whatever we going, we just gonna go, let's go, it didn't matter, we just went. And so I think that's how you find your own peace, the best that you can in a marriage. You know, and sometimes you don't realize that until it's over for some people.

Janet: 36:14

Me and I'm just being honest to our audience because we have real honest conversations. We didn't even know we were gonna be having this conversation, but yes, it's all about finding that peace.

Candace: 36:31

Ok, so we know from past podcasts that in your lifetime you've experienced stages where you've felt shame, for whatever reason it is. What was your journey like to finding peace in overcoming your shame?

Janet: 36:53

Reaching out for help and understanding that the shame that I was carrying was not my own, that the things that I did and I talk about it that the behaviors, that's when we find different ways to cope with different things is understanding. That's what I was doing, that I was doing the best I knew how to do and that brought me peace.

Janet: 37:16

Yeah, the shame was that that's a deeper, that goes a little deeper because there's therapy, that's all that, and getting clean and sober, there's that. But it's also getting around a circle of people or having a network of people. That will not shame you. That makes a difference, because now I'll make a mistake. I'll be like, oh man, I messed that up. Ok, jenny, you messed that up and I'll tell it. I'll be like, look, I messed up, it worked. They're like, jenny, ok, we heard you. I said, but no, we heard you. Oh, ok, because I recognize once, I admit it. So you can't hurt me with what I already knew. So when I tell you about me, it's me telling you about me and that's OK. So to answer the shame question, I think I answered it. Did I answer enough for you?

Candace: 38:17

Yeah, I think so. You think, ok, I'll take it, I'll take it, you take it. I'll ask the judges.

Janet: 38:25

But I want you to answer that question.

Candace: 38:28

What's the question?

Janet: 38:30

How did you deal with shame, or have you had to deal with shame, and how did you overcome it?

Candace: 38:40

See, I guess I equate shame with regrets and I know they're not the same. But because I don't have many regrets, I don't have a lot of shame, Like I don't feel where people could have shame. I don't carry much shame in anything that I can think of. Go ahead.

Janet: 39:12

I believe part of that is because of how you were raised.

Candace: 39:14

Yeah.

Janet: 39:16

You were not raised to feel ashamed about things, and I'll never forget something you said when you were a young girl. You said mama, I don't lie. I said, oh, you know I'm like, why'd you tell me this? You don't lie. No, I don't lie. And the reason why is because if I tell the truth, what are they going to do? Kill me or something?

Candace: 39:39

You were a kid, I was like OK.

Janet: 39:42

So no, that's why I don't lie. I said, ok, but that was so profound. That was so profound because people lie, because they're afraid of what the truth might bring.

Candace: 39:57

Yeah.

Janet: 39:59

You were saying I'm telling the truth, Guess what? What can they do? And so I think that is the difference. I think it's a generational sometimes thing.

Candace: 40:17

So I think another conclusion we can draw is that lies will not bring you peace. Of course not. That's a conclusion. It may feel like it, though, because you feel like you got away with something and now you don't have to be shamed from something, because the lie doesn't carry shame the truth for you does. Now, by the time the secret is out, now you've been exposed that you didn't tell the truth. Now people don't trust you. Now there is shame in the fact that you lied about the first thing and you still got to deal with the problem on top of that.

Janet: 41:02

Thank you for saying that, because something did happen and I said something and it got back to the person and they confronted me with it and I said yep, I admit it, I did, I said it and I'm going to tell you. And the reason why I said it was because I went through the whole thing. She could have lied or something. I said I sure did. And I went through the whole and we had a real good conversation about it. It was good. It was real good Because I like what you say about the trust thing. It was OK, well damn, she's just coming forward and she's not holding any punches, she's telling it, just telling it. And it was OK to tell it. I'm already caught right, oh yeah, so you know what I mean. Like OK now, yep, I sure did, huh.

Candace: 41:59

That's how I told you about my virginity. I was already in trouble.

Janet: 42:05

Do they need to know it? I mean at this point.

Candace: 42:08

You ask me a direct question when I'm already in trouble. At this point, I'm either going to lie about it and at some point have to tell her we can deal with this right now, when you are already in trouble, and tell the truth, let's do it. No, I'm not. And then and I don't want to talk about it. And if you do, then I'm never going to talk to you or something like that. I don't know what I said.

Janet: 42:37

Oh, ok, I misunderstood. Ok, you're saying that you told the truth. Yeah, oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said something totally different.

Candace: 42:44

Oh no, then I told you, I was like let's go, and how was the truth handled for you? Good for me. Yes, it was Not only told the truth about the situation, but I also told how I wanted to be handled in that moment.

Janet: 42:58

Yep.

Candace: 42:59

And if not handled that way, what the results would look like.

Janet: 43:07

But that's a real that was. That says a lot about your relationship with your mother.

Candace: 43:15

Yeah.

Janet: 43:16

It does, because you were able to have that and your mother's relationship with you, to be able to sit down and have that conversation.

Candace: 43:25

Mm-hmm, Like I feel proud.

Janet: 43:30

Oh my goodness, I feel real proud about it.

Candace: 43:34

I told I'm like uh-uh no, uh-uh, things be happening.

Janet: 43:39

You know, like I said, I was talking to folks today about being young. You know, we get a certain name. We forgot all that other stuff. I didn't forget. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Candace: 43:56

Well, we are at time.

Janet: 43:59

Oh, we did good.

Candace: 44:00

It happened so fast all the time.

Janet: 44:02

It does.

Candace: 44:03

But it was good. I think there's a lot to take from your experiences.

Janet: 44:11

Yes.

Candace: 44:12

Without even having to do it your way. It's really just about going on your own journey and trusting the process of your journey. Allowing things to go as they should.

Janet: 44:28

Yes.

Candace: 44:29

And do what feels right to you.

Janet: 44:31

Yes.

Candace: 44:32

Not just because someone else made a suggestion. It's a better fact. If you don't want to take in what people have to say, don't tell them a story, unless you have those non-judgmental listening ear people that say to the place, it's not safe. Don't share it.

Janet: 44:50

I don't. I got safe people Like you already know, your mom Safe people that I can talk to and I'm grateful for that. I'm very grateful Because the difference between shame and guilt you remember.

Candace: 45:09

What is?

Janet: 45:10

it Shame. Ok, shame is I am the problem, guilt. No, shame is I am the problem, guilt. Is I made a mistake?

Candace: 45:28

OK, yeah.

Janet: 45:30

Yeah, right. So that's what the shame is. The shame is you holding on to whatever went down. Oh my god, I did all. I'm just horrible. The guilt is I feel guilty that I kicked that dog. Yeah, I know I had to put something. Give you something to live. Kick a dog yeah, I feel guilty about that. I was in a hurry and it was in the way.

Candace: 45:54

That's not a reason to kick a dog.

Janet: 45:57

But I feel guilty and of course not.

Candace: 46:00

And that's a way of not to handle it.

Janet: 46:03

No, no, I'm saying people still do things that are not correct. We're human Right, so I feel guilty for kicking the dog, but I'm not walking around shameful about it. In fact, I called you on my way to work and said girl, I kicked the dog, I feel bad about it. Oh Lord, let me get him a treat on the way home. You follow what?

Candace: 46:26

I mean, I got you. I got exactly what you're saying. I got exactly what you're saying and, of course, well, first of all, thank you for sharing a lot of your story and helping people with finding their peace, or hopefully going on a journey to finding their peace, knowing that it's not all roses on the journey.

Candace: 46:47

The journey can be very difficult. It can feel like you can't get from point A to point B, but knowing that you will get to point B because you have to survive, that's the game. You survive, but then you live, yes.

Janet: 47:03

And then you live.

Candace: 47:05

And then you live with the sore. So if you or anyone you know is struggling or need help, you can definitely call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or you can text it at 988. You can follow me on Facebook or Instagram essential motivation LLC. Instagram. Essential motivation. On Facebook you can email me, candace Fleming, c-a-n-d-a-c-e, f-l-e-m-i-n-g at essentialmotivationcom. We love to hear from you. Send us more topics that you want to hear about. Thank you for this one. This was a wonderful topic coming from California, listener in California, so thank you for that. Thank you for awesome words of wisdom today. Getting our therapy Thursday.

Janet: 48:03

Yes, we did.

Candace: 48:05

But we'll see you all in two weeks and, of course, as you know, always love hard, forgive often, and last. Bye toodles, bye bye, Love you. Love you too. I am a scholar near Beau Rapides in Africa.