Embracing Parenthood's Unpredictable Twists: Homeschooling, Technology, and Healing Generational Trauma With Corene Lavhan

When my dear friend Corene Johnson faced her child's severe illness, she made a valiant pivot to homeschooling—a decision that would unknowingly become her family's saving grace during the pandemic. As Corene shares her story, you'll witness the weight of parental choices under societal scrutiny and the unexpected affirmation found in another's envy. This episode takes you through the complex tapestry of motherhood, where trust in parental instincts and community support in the homeschooling realm reveal the resilience that comes from embracing life's unpredictable twists.

Exploring the digital frontier our kids inhabit, we tackle the challenges of integrating technology into parenting. It's a delicate dance between setting boundaries and leveraging educational tools—a balance that's ever-shifting with each technological advance. But this episode goes deeper, peeling back the layers of generational trauma and the conscious effort to heal past wounds. Through candid storytelling, we examine how the pains and triumphs of previous generations shape our journey towards breaking cycles of trauma, embracing self-reflection, and cultivating grace.

Wrapping up our heartfelt discourse, we celebrate the evolution of Mommy Hour, a testament to the ever-changing currents of parenthood. It's not just about finding balance between work and mothering; it's about the power of intentional connections, the impact of our presence, and the nourishment of our inner selves amidst adversity. Join us for an intimate exploration into understanding our children's needs, behaviors, and the profound influence of our engagement. This is where raw, unfiltered conversations meet non-judgmental support, offering a safe harbor for all voyaging through the monumental undertaking that is motherhood.

Corene Lavhan aka Corene Johnson
Mommy Hour Podcast
Instagram

Transcript

Candace Fleming: 0:06

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Essential Mental Healing, where I am your host, candace Fleming, and joining me today is my lovely co-host, janet Hale, who is having some technical difficulties so you won't actually be able to hear her in this episode, but she is listening and will be able to interact with our guest back and forth.

Candace Fleming: 0:28

So we're going to have a little bit of a different format for this episode, but joining us also is our lovely Corene, Johnson. So, guys, we had a lot of technical things happening with this episode, so if things don't sound the same as they have, it's because of the technicalities that we have worked our best to get through. But Corene is a dear friend of mine who is an awesome and wonderful woman as well as wife and mother, and we are in this episode to discuss more so about the mothering journey. She has had such an interesting, awesome, amazing, unique journey that I think could definitely benefit many mothers who struggle in the line of being themselves and not putting on for everyone, because a lot of times I've noticed even with myself, when things happen in parenting will put on an act for other people. It's like, oh, my kid is acting up now at home.

Corene Johnson: 1:39

I wouldn't beat him but out in the public.

Candace Fleming: 1:41

I think I need to, because I need people to think that I'm doing better. I need them to look at me and have this this idea of me being a great mother, and being a great mother consists of beating my child when they're doing something wrong. However, kareen does not do so, has not done so, and I would love for you all to hear her journey. But first, could you introduce yourself a little more to us, kareen?

Corene Johnson: 2:07

Yeah, so I mean I'm having a moment because I'm realizing that we have known each other for almost 20 years. Yeah, I cannot believe. I'm even saying that we met at Howard University.

Corene Johnson: 2:22

Yeah, we met at Howard University and I just feel like we have been close ever since, like not have. We haven't missed a beat. We enter motherhood in the same year. We, we have just been each other's cheerleader and I'm just so honored to be your friend, I'm so honored to be your sister and I'm so, so happy and honored that you wanted to share my story today.

Candace Fleming: 2:52

Yes, of course. So, Corene, you have three lovely children. Your first child you had to do some homeschooling, or was that with the second? I know you did homeschooling for both, but did you start with Ellington or did you start after? Your second was?

Corene Johnson: 3:14

born. So I have a nine year well, he's gonna be nine this week and then I have a seven year old and then I have a one year old. So the my middle he actually got really, really sick when he was five months old. He was in a medically induced coma for some time. We were in the hospital for a little over a month and it was from RSV complications of RSV and ammonia and it was the second time getting it.

Corene Johnson: 3:49

And because he was so small, we were aggressively told to remove our oldest from daycare and basically start homeschooling them and bring them home. Our middle one hadn't started school yet, but we were told to bring our oldest one home because if he were to catch anything else it would probably be fatal. So we had to. I feel like motherhood is all about praying for the best and preparing for the worst, and that was, I feel like, my first introduction into that, that reality. And so, yeah, so we started homeschooling. And 2000 what was it? 2018? After he got out of the hospital, he was, he was almost six months and we homeschooled for a couple of years, right, right, when the pandemic started. So I so I guess I always say that we were prepared for the pandemic because we were already home cooling oh wow, before the pandemic started. Yeah, so that's awesome.

Candace Fleming: 5:05

Now, Corene, when you did that, did you get any backlash from people about how you were choosing to educate your children?

Corene Johnson: 5:17

well at the time. We now live in Los Angeles, but at the time we were living in Washington DC, which is a very, very well supported homeschooling community, especially for black families it is. It is a world that a lot of people aren't aware of. It's an underground world that is just so beautifully ran. It's such a well oiled machine. And so my first I feel like my first thing that I did was just anyone around me that was homeschooling. I was talking to them, interviewing them, finding out what I needed to do, making sure that I was in the co-ops to have the support that I needed, because at the same time, I had a little baby. So, even though I was listening to the doctors, like I was, I was trying to make sure and we didn't. We didn't do the homeschooling co-op like right away, because we just wanted to make sure that we gave him like a couple of months home, like without any interactions. But soon after we were, we had jumped right in and I feel like, because of the trajectory of my life trajectory of at that time, my oldest was three I feel like I have made it very clear that I'm open for suggestions, but I don't need your opinion.

Corene Johnson: 6:52

Your opinion is your opinion. So I'm one of those people and I kind of always like this. I kind of I take the meat and I leave the bones, because every single thing that you are telling me about my motherhood journey is based off of your experience, and sometimes you're not even a mother. Absolutely not to say that someone who has not birthed any children or who has, who hasn't adopted any children or taken care of children, can't tell you anything. But sometimes I do feel like we're too entitled to share our thoughts on something that we haven't experienced, and so I think that specific situation really did help me to really ground myself and who I am as a mother, because at that time there was no one else that I knew that had experienced, that you know, had experienced their child in a medically induced coma, had experienced at five months old and, and when he was, when he, when he, when they place him in a medically induced coma, that was actually his second time in the hospital in a month.

Corene Johnson: 8:03

So it was. It was a very, very unique experience that shaped our family, that that made us closer, that built trust between me and my husband. So the opinions I feel like weren't. It wasn't there because I feel like it was one of those moments where I was like put some respect on my name, right. Right, I am in the trenches here and I don't have time for for anyone else who is not in support of what I'm doing. And if you don't get it, that's fine. But I'm really not interested in your opinion because it has nothing to do with you and you don't even understand what's happening.

Candace Fleming: 8:51

You know, you know what I love that, Corene. I love that so much and you and I get to have really good conversations, like they just magically turn into universal, deep conversations in about five minutes, and that's awesome. But I love and I practice this as well not doing what other people are suggesting, because it doesn't necessarily match your purpose, your will, your journey, because one all of our children are so unique and so different and they carry things differently, they do things differently. Like I was talking to a friend and he was like you know, my child used to be really hard on themselves. They would say things that were very concerning, like hurtful, like hurting themselves and things like that, but what happened was they found out that the way they were communicating with their child was making them feel this way. So they were like you know, I had to stop being so hard on them. I had to feed them with positivity, more so than being hard on the things they weren't doing right, and so that's something that they had to do individually for their child. And he was like every time I would try to whoop them or something, it seemed like it was making his life worse and he was like so I had to stop doing that because it wasn't working.

Candace Fleming: 10:08

And I remember once trying to pop Kamari this was when she was younger, younger, you know, you're figuring it out, black community, how we're supposed to do it and um, in the next time she did something and she was like just pop me.

Candace Fleming: 10:22

And I was like wait, first of all, this isn't the way this is supposed to go. I'm confused because I feel like you're using reverse psychology, so I'm not gonna pop you. Haha, jokes on you, yeah. But then I ended up having the conversation with her, which worked out better, because now she understood why I was upset. She understood why I wanted or was doing the consequences of actually that's punishment at that point that I was doing, um, and I started teaching her in her Way of life, because our children don't know anything. They don't know what's right and what's wrong until we teach them we know it. So when they and even if we gave them a hint towards it in life, like hey, don't do this, well, two years later they did it, they're not even probably not mostly thinking about the fact that you said don't do it.

Candace Fleming: 11:13

So they're doing it because they were interested, they were curious, they thought it would be fun. You know certain things, especially I would tell my daughter the first time is a warning, the second time it's a consequence, because you know that and consequence doesn't look like a beating. A consequence may be taking her phone. A consequence may be you have to do some. I hate this one, but do an extra page of work, because all the reason I hate that one is because I don't want you to think work is punishment. Yeah, but we do have.

Candace Fleming: 11:44

You know, just figuring out that whole journey in itself has been Super interesting, but you have been monumental in that, as well as my mother, because we talked a lot when I was pregnant. We talked a lot when I first had Kamari and I was learning how to be a guy. I always thought you were the parent, so I was learning how to be of the parent and one of the things that I will say is done and, of course, this podcast Is all about solution base. We hear the problem that we want to move towards solutions, one of the things that I remember you saying to me with Ellington was that you don't, you didn't tell him no, you would say no, thank you because it was softer and it was more receptive, and so I started that too.

Candace Fleming: 12:28

Thank you, Corene was so cool. No, thank you, I'm like well, well, I hear to know, but it does sound gentle and Okay, I guess it's a no yeah.

Corene Johnson: 12:40

I heard. So I was working at a school in DC, a charter school in DC, and one of the girl that I was working with I heard her say that to her daughter and I I was like I am going to use that because I Always say that I'm a gentle parent until I can't be gentle anymore, like I'm a gentle parent Until we need to find some other solutions and not to say that it's not gonna be quote-unquote a gentle. But you know, you just, you just have to get more aggressive and you know maybe some tears will come because of your tone or Whatever. But I just feel like you know we, there are other ways to do things besides taking out a bill and and Absolutely being your child until they say they're there, until they apologize. So yeah, I'm just. I've just always been open to other modes of like helping my children See the world in A way where they don't always feel like they're always doing something wrong.

Candace Fleming: 14:00

Mm-hmm, yeah, because it does. It makes a lot of sense if you think about a relationship like a Our relationships with our spouse, or romantic relationships. If you came into a home and every day they only told you or they kept telling you what you did wrong, or they keep telling you to fix something, or they're yelling at you, you're not gonna want to come to that home every day and it's the same thing with children.

Candace Fleming: 14:25

We just don't think so. Because, well, one, their unconditional love they just bounce back and be like I love you again. But two, because we just think they're supposed to do this is the way it's supposed to be done, and that's not true.

Candace Fleming: 14:38

We're, we are their examples, we're so when they watch us, it's like how do I handle difficult situations? Well, I saw how mommy handled that, so I'm gonna handle it this way. If we go out cussing everybody out, guess what? They're gonna go out cussing everybody up. If we want to fight everybody, that's how they're gonna be in school. They're gonna want to fight all the children, because that's how they learn how to do conflict. It's easy for us to say, oh, use your words, do this and do that, and then, when it comes to that time, they're like oh no, I know what to do. My automatic response to this is to do this. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I also have my child around, so I'm just trying to do the best. So mom gets in a message and and she said that the way we love our children is another way to love ourselves. That's true, that is very true.

Corene Johnson: 15:30

That's true, and that's also very hard you know I because when you, I don't know, I can only speak for myself, but I really had to come to terms with the way that I viewed myself after becoming a mom. It took me some years, see, like how I viewed myself, because I feel like throughout life, depending on the way that we were raised or our relationships, our childhood relationships, our adult relationship you have so much armor on you and I think everyone can say this about me I was pretty hard growing up. I was pretty hard in college. I was pretty hard my my 20s it was.

Corene Johnson: 16:21

It was a lot of Toughness that I felt like needed to be in place that stem from my relationship with my mother. That stem from growing up in Cleveland like it just stemmed from me being Always being, always feeling like I needed to be on the defense and it was a, it was my tool, and so when you have children and you realize that they don't know anything and you are the one that has to teach them, you have to remove that exterior in order to get them less than across some time. For most of the time, all time, you you got to remove those layers because my son was born in Maryland and now lives in LA. He doesn't understand a Cleveland upbringing.

Candace Fleming: 17:13

He doesn't he?

Corene Johnson: 17:14

only stands his specific journey. And sometimes we bring our personal journey into the their world and they don't get it like they don't understand. They don't understand the toughness and the they don't. They don't get it. It just doesn't make sense in their world. So I had to understand that in order for me to love my children the way that felt good to me, I needed to understand that I'm worthy of that love too.

Candace Fleming: 17:46

And that took a while for me to like, completely like grasp now, one of the things that we did, or our parents were didn't have, was tablets and phones and things. Growing up, what was your transition like in allowing your children to use tablets and phones? Or are you still like no electronic, no screen time or very small screen time? Or have you adapted to the times of? Children are just into tablets and things and they learn that way?

Corene Johnson: 18:23

I am all about a tablet, a phone. I just really feel like some things are and this is just my thoughts but I just feel like sometimes things are just extreme. And if you don't want to give your child a tablet, that's fine. If you don't want to give your child a phone, that's fine. But when I'm sitting in the airport, my child is going to get a tablet and my child is going to get a phone. When I'm at dinner and my child was supposed to be at an event and that event didn't come through, or they were supposed to be on a play date and they got to come with me to dinner to meet with somebody, they're going to get a tablet, they're going to get a phone. It's for my sanity, not yours. So if it bothers you to see my child on a tablet, then don't look.

Corene Johnson: 19:11

But I feel like in this day and age you can make those adjustments for your household, and I feel like if you don't do it, they're going to get it somewhere else. My son was telling me how they were learning cursive on YouTube in class. Oh, wow. And so of course, the teacher is still teaching them, but she's showing them videos to help her process, and so I just think we underestimate how it's already influenced in their lives and if you use it to your advantage, I feel like it's only but so much that you can do, because it's not like it's not downing anyone who does this, because everyone's household is their own, but the boys are not on the tablets like looking up YouTube videos every single day.

Candace Fleming: 20:09

It's like a lot of educational apps.

Corene Johnson: 20:15

It's just a lot of educational things, like sometimes they can just pull up the Disney app, but a lot of times it's just educational things or tab time.

Candace Fleming: 20:24

Yeah, it's almost like teaching while you're doing something else. You get to multitasking. Yeah, mom did have a question going back to what we were talking about as far as healing the inner self. She asks if you did, you have to learn to heal the child within you and go back and get her to teach her anew.

Corene Johnson: 20:54

Mmm. So I do believe that I had to shift my lens on the way that I viewed myself. So I do think a lot of it started with me just looking at little Corrine, looking at seven year old Corrine, looking at innocent Corrine. The Corrine that didn't know what armor was needed to get through life, the Corrine that didn't know all of the journeys that the women in my life have been on, the pain that, like I feel like there was so much. There was so much anger for me built up because I didn't have a very close relationship with my mom and it's because she didn't have a very close relationship with her mom.

Corene Johnson: 21:57

My grandmother actually just passed this week and that may sound very thank you.

Corene Johnson: 22:04

That may sound very sad for some people, but it was very healing for me because I went so many years with so much anger towards my grandmother for what she allowed my mother and her siblings to go through, because it definitely had so much effect on me and all of my first cousins. And so for me, even recently, I wrote a letter to my grandmother this week apologizing to her for the journey that she had to go on as a black woman in the 30s and 40s in the United States, raising six children six black children in the south, and so I think for me, my healing has really had a lot to do with me releasing the expectations that I placed on previous generations that weren't their own, just like we had to adjust with our generation of kids, with the tablets and everything they dealt with, stuff that my ego didn't know anything about, but my ego as a daughter and my entitlement as a daughter made me feel like, well, she should have done this and she should have done that, but she didn't have the tools to do that.

Corene Johnson: 23:36

She didn't have the tools to give me some of the things I longed for. They didn't. A lot of that hardness came from my mom and my grandmother, and so I now can see that as their strength. I look at it as like how could you deal with an abusive man and how could you? But this is a very sensitive thing to say, but domestic violence in childhood has a long, ever lasting impression on that child and the generations that come after them.

Corene Johnson: 24:27

And my mother came from a very abusive household and so I can't negate that.

Corene Johnson: 24:33

When I think about how to deal with my mother and the way that I have to mother myself and me to change the lineage, I have to be very, very mindful that these were women that came from very, very, very, very, very, very complicated backgrounds and layered backgrounds, painful backgrounds.

Corene Johnson: 24:59

My mother had joy in it, but there was a lot of pain there and I feel like, in order for me to fully accept who I am, I really had to accept who my mom and my grandmother was, because you know, at the end of the day, if my grandmother didn't exist, I wouldn't be here, because I come from my mother and she came from my grandmother Before I was even thought of. I was in my grandmother's room and so I came from her and I had to really come to terms with that and what that meant, and I feel like the anger that I had towards my mother and my grandmother, for them not being able to live up to my expectations, that anger, like it, came back to me in a lot of ways. So I had a lot of anger toward myself and in life and you know, as beautiful as a mother that I can be. I had a lot of anger in my early years of motherhood too.

Corene Johnson: 26:08

And that's something that I had to work through and that's something you know. I still have moments where I have to go. I have to go, take a time in my life and make sure that I'm doing what I need to do emotionally and spiritually, to be present for them.

Candace Fleming: 26:31

Now I love what you're saying. I love all of this. Now, when you talk about generational curses and coming down, I recently had a whole revelation that general curses have nothing to do with not being passed down. They have everything to do with not being taught to the next generation. They don't have to break what they don't know.

Candace Fleming: 26:51

So if abuse is in your family and you want to break that generational curse, don't show your children abuse. They'll never have to deal with that. You know, it's all of those little things. And then the other thing I wanted to say was it was you've done this self-work within yourself, but can you recognize it in other people? So when someone is attacking you, can you say this has nothing to do with me, this has everything to do with you? And I'm going to separate the two to be able to not be angry because of what someone has done to you. Are you able to do that same self-reflection for others as you do for yourself and give that same grace to them as you would give for yourself? And I'll share a story about that in a second, after you answer.

Corene Johnson: 27:43

I can now. It took me 30-something years to be able to get to this point, because my first defense was either cussing you out up and down or, you know, it was just always some kind of aggression that made you made it very clear that I'm not the one, I'm not the one that you want to go there with, and so what I realized is that we all live different journeys and there is someone in the corner that is so envious of what you got going on. You may just be, you may just be living the most simple life, but there is someone that is so envious of what you have going on.

Corene Johnson: 28:43

And that person is always going to come out of the weeds. It doesn't matter what you got going on, it doesn't matter what you're doing, it doesn't matter how bad you think you look or how worse or how bad you think your family is doing, there's always going to be somebody that comes out of the weeds that reminds you that you really do got it going on.

Candace Fleming: 29:09

It's not me, it's you.

Corene Johnson: 29:12

Me is you, and and you really have to that's where the self-work comes in. Like, once you've done the work on yourself, you realize that every single thing that people project say to you has something to do with them, every single thing that people say to you. And so I think for me, I have gotten to a place where, throughout my years of of Cussing simple tins out is what I call them Cussing haters out. I'm one of those people I never even thought I had a dang old hater, and then it's just like you get older and you just like, oh, that's what that's been All these years.

Corene Johnson: 29:51

People have just been in the use of your journey. You know being younger and older adults, being envious of your, of your, of your freedom, and envious of your, of your joy and your. You know the, the eagerness inside of you. Sometimes that's sometimes that's professors, sometimes as teachers, sometimes as parents, sometimes as family members, sometimes as co-workers like you. It just comes from everywhere. But what I realized over the years is that that's a lot of energy that you give those people. Those people that literally Can't even take care of themselves properly, can't even, you know, can't even choose men properly, can't even choose partners properly, can't even do things that you would do, so why are you even arguing with them?

Candace Fleming: 30:45

Janet says you know. She says you don't need to bring up my past. I don't live there anymore. Find my new address.

Corene Johnson: 30:53

Exactly, exactly, and so you, you know that. That's that's. That's another thing that I think is so important. It's like when you are doing yourself work and self work looks different for everyone, but when you're doing yourself work, I Feel like you have to be very, very mindful that people notice it immediately. And when you maybe being we hit, when you are in tune with yourself you, you start to distance yourself and you realize that you don't have to be connected to everybody anymore. You know, just like I said, my, my tough exterior was my armor. Sometimes relationships is our armor and sometimes we feel obligated to maintain these relationships.

Corene Johnson: 31:37

But one thing that my therapist told me a couple weeks ago Relationships and obligations to relationships, obligation to anything is outdated. You don't have to be connected to anything or anyone you don't want to be connected to. So so, yeah, you, you, you have to that self work. It usually shows up when you start being really, really mindful of, like, your Relationships and how those relationships impact you and how you impact those relationships, because a lot of people are just sucking you dry and until you start to become aware of that, you just continue to give your energy and you, you drained around these people and you don't even know why. You don't have energy, you don't have the capacity to be drained. When you're a mother, you, yes, have to pour into your children, into your family. So if people are not around you to help you pour into your children.

Candace Fleming: 32:32

Those I don't, those ain't your people let's talk about intentional and time because, yes, stop your own bleeding is what Jenna said to your comment that you just made. She also said earlier in response to when we were talking about the ancestors, and she said my prayer to my ancestors in the universe For my womb, being grateful. She did say that I wanted to share. We were talking about other people's problems and them bringing it to you is because of them. I have a situation where someone isn't always so kind to me. However, I I am aware enough to know that they're past. They're upbringing the people around them. Their thought process definitely influence the way that they respond to me, and it's easy for someone to look at me and say why don't you respond in the same way that they're responding? Why are you still kind? Why are you still smiling like they're doing things to you that aren't very kind? But I understand that that's not about me. If I respond in the way that they are responding to me, then I'm only being them. I'm not being me, and Candice enjoys being a light. It's funny because when you, when you're going through it, people are always like you should do this, you should do that. But when it's over, they end up saying if you do it your way. You'll hear a lot of this. You handled that really well. You did a great job. I can't believe you were so kind through that. But going through it, people are hurt and they just want to see pain and flick that on pain. What if we didn't inflict pain with pain and we inflicted pain with love? Oh, it ain't gonna go too far. It ain't gonna go too far. Then you, being the monster you don't like that's what Janet said then you're big right. Exactly, I don't want to be that monster. I don't like her, I don't want to be her. She ain't me. But the person I am, I think, is beautiful and bright and light. So I continue to show that part of me, even in difficult situations. But again, that comes with Healing yourself, healing, knowing what's happening, knowing what happened in the previous generations.

Candace Fleming: 34:49

My mother had different things from her mother. Her mother gave her different things. My brother got the grunt brunt of the end with breaking that generational curse, because for me I don't have a lot of. I maybe got it in the beginning, but it's. It was so small and few and in between. For me at least, my memory, my record lexing, I have a lot more positive in it, but I think a lot of that came with how my mother and father both treated me with love. They pour so much love into me, man. Sometimes I'd be like come on with the love, come on. But yeah, but I wanted to say I said all of that because you have so much good stuff.

Candace Fleming: 35:30

Being intentional with your children will definitely take you away from other people, because I've been being a lot more intentional With our time, especially during the school week, because she goes to her father Mondays and Tuesdays. I mean, then I get her after school Wednesday, but there is a time after school and before bedtime that she has to have specific time to know that she matters. But during that is also the time which would be quote-unquote the time I'll be on the phone or doing things with other people. So I've had to come out of that in order to give my child more intentional time. However, this is a part of what I signed up for. First of all, I want it to be a mother, so I actually decided that I was gonna give up a part of my free time in order to pour into this child.

Candace Fleming: 36:14

Now I don't think a lot of parents realize that when you say I'm gonna have children. This is what you're doing, and you're doing that with every child that you have. It's not just, oh, I'm having a kid to be a sibling. We shouldn't be having children just to be a sibling. We have to raise them, you know. So I mean, it's good that our children have siblings, but I'm saying that putting that intentional time in your child Is definitely gonna take you away, and it's easy to weed out those bad people first when you realize that you have to do that and live a more fruitful life. Show your child the fruitful life you're living and give it to them. Okay, I'm done.

Corene Johnson: 36:48

Yeah, yeah, you have to. You know, I I Having three children, definitely you know the two of us. I was able to. I was able to talk on the phone. Sometimes I was able to do different things. And now I literally look at myself and I'm just like, oh, you haven't caught. You haven't caught KK in two weeks, you haven't caught, you haven't. Like I'm realizing like, oh, my goodness, like you are really busy, but you're not. It's not that you're but you're not. It's not that you're quote unquote busy, you're present. Yes, yes you're present.

Corene Johnson: 37:31

Yeah, I just feel like I have to be that during these years, like there's no other choice for me, and I want to be that way. I'm not. This isn't something that's happening against my will. Like I chose to have three children, I decide like this is something that we plan to do. So this is what I signed up for.

Candace Fleming: 37:55

Yes, and you know what your friends are going to be understanding of that and when you have them living their own lives, it's actually the same thing. They don't have the same time that you don't have, you know. But also just being able to say I know that them not talking to me has nothing to do with them not loving me, so that when you do talk again you jump right back. You and I. We don't talk for six, seven months. Sometimes We'll have a two hour conversation catch up on the last seven months as if we never missed a beat. Never missed a beat. But that's the love you have to have between people and understanding. It's not about not liking you or being angry with you. It's me living my life and when we connect we'll connect. Our paths will cross, but I live an independent life, you live an independent life and in our independent lives we have to continue to grow and we have to continue to grow.

Candace Fleming: 38:41

Janet said, going back to the process, generational curses, because I had mentioned that my brother got the brunt of it, and she said that he was brought up in the learning process in the beginning. Many mistakes. I had to break the generational patterns. Unfortunately, he had to be a part of the beginning of my new life. There was, you know, there were weapons back then, but she was doing her best. My brother was in gangs and everything and trying to figure out how do you get your child out of a gang, how do you get your child to do right, how do you get your? You think I'm gonna push right on them, I'm gonna force good on them, I'm gonna take them out of this atmosphere, but you have to learn how to be there for the child that you have.

Candace Fleming: 39:23

She did eventually definitely learn how to do so in the best way. Part of that may be being having me, part of that being a new partner, part of that being life, part of that just being all of the wisdom that she's gained. But in the end, especially right before his death, that it was definitely understood that it was a process and it was love everything. And why did he need the gang in the first place is what she asks. What was he there for? What was he looking for outside of the home? That he had to find a family in these people out in the streets? And yes, I see you she's given all the things. You guys can't hear her, but she is very present in this conversation.

Corene Johnson: 40:11

But yeah, even in the dark, because life is all about light and dark. Even in the dark there are moments where you can ask yourself what role did I play in this, and especially with our first borns. I'm so proud of my oldest of Ellington. It's like I was not the best mom for a very long time.

Corene Johnson: 40:42

I mean, I know that I was doing things differently, but like there were just some things with myself that I just I knew that I wanted to heal certain parts of me so that I could be better for my children. And there are times where I just feel like you really do have to take the ego out and ask yourself why is my child doing this? Why what is happening that?

Corene Johnson: 41:08

is making them sometimes my child can be a little, all three of them can be very attached and it's like oh, that's because I'm not present enough. I'm not present enough. My children are running behind me in the house and behind me can we, can we? Can we, can we? That's because I'm not, I haven't been present enough in the last couple of hours or days.

Corene Johnson: 41:29

Yes, yes. And so you have to constantly ask yourself. These are people that have no ill intentions at all, they came from you and they're so pure, and children are really, really pure up until they're seven. And so if you have children that are doing things, that's making you lose your mind, ask yourself, like, what's going on, or ask them. That's my favorite ask them. You know, my one year old isn't able to communicate everything, but I love asking Ellington and Parker. You know why?

Corene Johnson: 42:06

are you doing that? What's happening? What's going on? How can I be a better mom to you?

Candace Fleming: 42:12

I asked him that question often, girl, listen, because they'll tell you. They'll tell you what you're doing, what they think you're doing wrong, and I love the answer that comes, though. The answer is really nice, especially when you see you're doing it right and they tell you oh, I love the way, I love how you love me, I love that we spend time together. Like to hear. That is amazing.

Candace Fleming: 42:32

And there's an episode of Bluey actually where the kids wanna play, so I think it was the whale episode and the New Year's episode. But anyways, they do all of this, they're tired and everything. So they end up doing this whole whale play thing and then the end the kids go play by themselves and they're like that's all you need it. And I've actually witnessed that Me give my daughter an hour of play, just we just sit together, no phones, no nothing. And I'm like okay, I'm gonna go to my room. And she's like cool, because I gave her, I filled her with what she needed and I can go and do it.

Candace Fleming: 43:08

Even yesterday, actually, we spent a lot of. She had her basketball game, she went with me to get my makeup done. We had a photo shoot at the office by the time we got. I did her hair by the time we got back home I was tired and I had to tell myself you spent a lot of time with your daughter today. It's okay, if you're tired, to go lay down and guess what? She sat here and watch TV, didn't have any electronics or anything, let me sleep. And she ended up falling asleep and everything was good. She didn't bother me at all, but it's because I gave her what she needed. She didn't feel like she was missing or lacking anything.

Corene Johnson: 43:40

Yeah, yeah, and that's something that we just put on children. But like we're the same way, like when we are fulfilled, we act very different and I think that is something that I had to come to terms with. Like, my child is just like me. My child is a human, my children are human. So if they're not getting what they need, they're not going to act right, they're not going to sleep right, they're not going to, you know, behave in a I don't want to say a good way in school or proper in school, but their behavior is going to reflect how they are. Their behavior is going to reflect what they're receiving.

Candace Fleming: 44:26

Janice says I'm sorry to cut you off. Sometimes your why is more important than your what. Why is the child behaving the way they are? That makes them do what they are doing? We have to look at the why than what. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Corene Johnson: 44:40

Yeah, yeah, it's always the why, it's always the why, and that why starts with you and then, once you know your why, you can help to understand your children's why.

Candace Fleming: 44:51

Yes and being present in their why. Actually, right now I'm going through a situation with Kamari and I'm figuring out the why. So she has this attachment, she doesn't want to leave me sometimes, but it starts to happen near the middle of the school year. I'm realizing that it has a lot more to do with her feeling less confident in the work that she's doing because it's getting harder, so she's rebelling against going to class more. I didn't realize that. I thought it was all these other things, and then I asked her. I said I'm looking at the work and I'm looking at the grades, and then I'm like are you having a difficult time in school? Do you need more help? Do you need more tutoring? And she says, yeah. I'm like, oh, okay, well, I can help you with that. Where do you need the help?

Candace Fleming: 45:40

You know it's being present, though, because I could have looked at the behavior that happened and just yo, you can't do this. But, like you said, why are you behaving this way? What is making you do so? And it's going to change the behavior. We did a podcast a few weeks ago with the behavior. She does neurofeedback and she talked about how kids and their behavior in school had a lot more to do with them not understanding. Either they couldn't read the information, they couldn't write the information, or they just clearly didn't understand what was going on but was too embarrassed to say what the real problem was. So the action was to act out, and if no one paid attention to what was going on, overall that kid is getting in trouble because they acting out.

Corene Johnson: 46:25

They don't know what they want to do, though, Like all right.

Candace Fleming: 46:26

I'm out of class not doing that work.

Candace Fleming: 46:30

You know like it's paying attention. It's definitely being present, karine, I wanted to talk about Mommy Hour. We're already 47 minutes in and I haven't even been able to talk. You had a podcast or have a podcast called Mommy Hour, which is, in part, what made I listened to that podcast and I knew that I needed you on this podcast to talk about parenting, because you have such an evolved mind when it comes to parenting to me, I believe. So I appreciate that. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Mommy Hour, how it got started, where people can listen and what is to come, maybe.

Corene Johnson: 47:13

Yeah. So Mommy Hour was birthed during the time where I was forced to become a stay at home mom, when my middle one, parker, was in the hospital and I was forced into this stay at home mom life and I was at all the story times, I was at all these different places that I was not at before, and it was almost as if God placed me. I mean, well, I feel like this is always the case, but God put me in this, in these new spaces, for me to receive what I needed to do next, which was the podcast. And so I realized that these moms have no one to talk to, and when I say they were diarrhea at the mouth, they were. I mean, they were telling me all of their business, and I'm one of the. I can talk to just about anybody. I can talk to the fly on the wall. I can talk. I can talk to anybody.

Candace Fleming: 48:24

Me too.

Corene Johnson: 48:30

But the things that they were sharing. I was just like, wow, they feel really comfortable like sharing this information for some reason, and so I was just like I just need to have a space for these moms. And so some of those moms I met during story time were some of the ones that I came that I invited in for you know some of my first episodes, because I was just so floored and honored and humbled that these women would just feel so comfortable to share their journeys with me, and so I did the podcast. I started the podcast in 2018. And I have about like 50 something episodes.

Corene Johnson: 49:12

You can hear it, you can listen to it anywhere podcasts are played, but I am in the process of free building mommy hour and seeing what that is going to look like. I just feel like, since I've recorded my last podcast session which was in 2019, so much has changed, and so I'm really figuring out like what will it look like moving forward? It's a space where I'm just very, very transparent about motherhood, and I opened the door for other mothers to be transparent about motherhood. I think it's very important because I don't feel like there's a lot of honesty in motherhood. I feel like there is so much sugarcoating and so much projection, and so much shit show, as you say it's a shit show sometimes, but we have to realize that we are not the shit show.

Corene Johnson: 50:09

Like the journey of motherhood can feel like a shit show because it's so much out of our control, like we don't control so much of it. But that doesn't mean that we're out of control. It just means that, just like your kids are new to the world, you are new to motherhood. So you're not going to figure it out, like you have your job figured out that you've been working at for nine years. Or you're not going to figure out motherhood the way that you figured out how to do your makeup so well. It's just so much.

Candace Fleming: 50:47

So many years to it.

Corene Johnson: 50:49

It's ever changing. As soon as you get one stage, you've moved on to the next, and don't let you have multiple. Yeah, let you have multiple. You've moved on to one, to next, and then the other one, like you, just, it's just so many layers. So mommy hour is a space that I truly feel like is for moms who are not interested in judging other mothers and their journey. You know like I'm, so in tune with God, and I am very aware that God is the only one that can judge what I got going on.

Candace Fleming: 51:24

And.

Corene Johnson: 51:24

I'm still fascinated at almost 40 years old. I am still fascinated by people who are so entitled to judge when someone else has going on. And back to what you were saying about treating people the way that you want to treat them and instead of how they treat you. You have to worry about your karma.

Corene Johnson: 51:48

Yes your judgment on other people, your judgment on on. You know what somebody else got going on that you have nothing to do with, that you know nothing about. You got to be aware of your own karma, and a lot of times that means you being so present in your journey and on your role that you ain't got time to be worrying about what somebody else is doing, unless you're trying to help them, just like someone speeding on the freeway and they weaving and wobbling out of traffic.

Candace Fleming: 52:18

you cussing them out like not knowing they trying to make it to they dying mother that they only got so much time. You know we don't know their story but we quick to judge the action. Oh, that sounded like yeah, and you have made a statement before. You didn't know why these women felt so safe to share. Mom said that you make them feel safe, another reason that they feel, especially in that mommy hour. You make people feel. I felt safe listening. I'm like, yeah, give me more.

Corene Johnson: 52:52

I have always been a person that talks to the person that no one else is talking to in the room.

Corene Johnson: 52:59

I've always been that person. And it's so funny because I listened to a podcast of Yvette Nicole Brown. She's from Cleveland, she's an actress, voiceover artist and it's so funny because I was listening to a podcast with her and Amanda Seals and she said the same thing. And I've always said that for years that I always talk to people in the room that no one else is talking to. And I heard her say that and I said it must be, it must be a Midwest Cleveland thing, because it's just something that's just innate. It's like if I see that you don't look quite right, I'm going to check in and see what's going on. I mean, I got to talk about everything, but I just want you to know that there is some light if you're feeling like that.

Candace Fleming: 53:45

It's more darkness, man, that happened on the street for me in Ferndale here, which is a heavily populated gay community, and I was visiting a friend and I went out to a bar and when we were leaving there was a lady two ladies in the street and one was kind of crying. I don't know what possessed y'all know I just talk to people I don't know what possessed me to get all in a business. I was like, well, I just hope you have a better day, or whatever I said. She ended up sharing. She was going through the transition transgender and was just feeling lonely but was so grateful to have that person who she was standing in the street with to be an ally in their life and we just we talked for maybe like five to 10 minutes crossing paths. In that moment I feel like I gave something to her in that crossing path and like, simply because something was wrong, and I was able to make her smile, you know, and that felt really good. That whole crossing path of the outcast, so yeah.

Corene Johnson: 54:42

Yeah, and just think about how many moments we have feeling like that throughout life, like it's so many moments where we go into new spaces and it may not be as drastic as getting a sex change, but I mean, you know, being a black person going into a white space is uncomfortable. You know, being baptized going into a Pentecostal is uncomfortable, just so many different, so many different spaces that we enter and our bodies are like oh, this is new.

Corene Johnson: 55:16

And you know if you have that same mentality and you think about your children in that way so many things that they do it's just new to them. So you know, if we have that same mindset with our children, I do feel like we are on a road to so much healing and parenting these children in the way that they need to be parented, instead of how we feel like we need to parent them, because the way that we feel like we need to parent them is one way, but the way that they need to be parented is can sometimes be different and Janice says the body keeps.

Candace Fleming: 55:56

the body is keeping the score.

Corene Johnson: 55:58

Mm, hmm.

Candace Fleming: 56:00

It's a book on that, so it's really good. She also made a comment earlier that says Candice, you are able to care for your mother and your dad. Before he passed generational growth, this must have been during the generational curses situation. I'm grateful to see the fruit of my love manifest through you and Kamari. Oh, thanks, mom, you're so awesome and I'm so fortunate to be able to do this platform, this podcast, with her, you know, and be able to let Kamari see it. She's going to have so much history, no matter what happens to me or my mom in life, because we do have this, and that is something, too, that I've wanted to do and still want to do is get family recordings and have them. I was able to get my aunt before she died, so that was pretty cool.

Candace Fleming: 56:47

Her last actual day of being able to be verbal. The next day she was out of commission and she died a little of a few weeks later. I know right On the podcast. No, it wasn't on the podcast. I went to the hospital and in that moment I just wanted to ask questions, so I recorded it. I hit record and asked her questions about life and she answered them. I played it for her sons.

Corene Johnson: 57:11

I know it's kind of cool. I love that, I know. Yeah, I grew up with my. I always say that I started doing my podcast because of my dad, because I grew up with my dad recording. I remember him recording my great grandfather who died at 101, and I remember he was probably in his I mean late, late, late 90s he's probably 98, 99 when we recorded him. But that's a very fond memory of mine of my dad recording the elders in our generation.

Candace Fleming: 57:37

Yeah, I have one last question and then we have to wrap up because I don't know how the time I'm going to stop saying it for every episode, because apparently it just happens. So you shared a lot about your journey, parenting, how you home schooled, and I'm sure there are gonna be listeners who says how was she able to manage doing all of that and work. So can you tell us a little bit of your home work, life balanced? Did you work the whole time? Did you have time off? Where you stay at home? Mom, are you working now? What does that journey look like for those who are just trying to figure out this thing called balance?

Corene Johnson: 58:17

Hmm. So I don't believe in balance, I just don't. I don't feel like there is ever a time where it will all be evenly balanced. I do feel like there are times where we feel more balanced than others, but I do feel like there are just certain seasons for certain things. And when I was told to come home or it would be fatal for my child, we had to go down to one income, and I did that up until. I did that for about four years until I got pregnant with my youngest, and then I went back to work for a little bit and then I'm an actress and voiceover artist. So I actually left my job last June and so now I'm full-time voiceover and performer again.

Corene Johnson: 59:23

But most of the time I've been kind of in and out and I do feel like that's one of the sacrifices that I have been OK with. With motherhood I we've gone down to one income more than not, and I feel like you know when you are on your journey, you know what's right for your family, you know what works for your family, you know what doesn't work for your family. So that has been my journey. I was working when I had my first one and then when my second one got sick, I had to come home and then I was home. You know, we dealt with a cross-country move back to Los Angeles during that time. We dealt with the pandemic. We dealt with so many things during that time, so I was able to be present with them during that time. And then I got pregnant with our last baby and I went back to work while I was five months pregnant and then my artistry has called me and so that's what I'm doing now.

Corene Johnson: 1:00:41

I'm a full-time performer and I feel like it needs to be said that, having children, you will sacrifice something, and so for me I chose to get the children off the way and focus on my career after and for some people it looks differently, but for me I needed to focus on the kids first, get all of that out the way, get those three births out the way, all the breastfeeding out the way, so that now that I'm done building the family, I can focus fully on my career. So a lot of the time I was at home, present with the children, and that was my journey. But again, everybody's journey is different, very different, and I think it's very important to know that the way that I did it may not work for you. The way that someone else did it would not work for me.

Corene Johnson: 1:01:44

So yeah, I don't believe in balance. I feel like we feel more balanced sometimes, but a lot of the times you just have to know that you can do a lot of different things just at different times. You're not going to be able to do it all at one time. You can try, but know that something is going to be sacrificed.

Candace Fleming: 1:02:09

Absolutely. Mom says service versus a gift to stay at home with your children. It's a sacrifice, sorry. Sacrifice versus gift to stay at home with your children, sorry yeah. This weekend was one of those weekends where balance didn't exist.

Corene Johnson: 1:02:31

And you just have to surrender. During those moments you can't find it, you just have to surrender.

Candace Fleming: 1:02:36

And you know what, though? When you surrender, I will say there, there's so much peace in the surrender Because you're not anxious about like, oh my god, I got it, got it, got it. I start looking for the solution as soon as I realized something needs to change. Friday yes, I was supposed I wanted to do my daughter's hair that night. Guess what, it didn't happen, we didn't.

Candace Fleming: 1:02:58

It was almost midnight by the time I would have been starting, and she looked at me and was like I say not today, but I had already started planning. What would the next solution look like? I was like OK, yes, I got an hour where I'll be at the office. I can get there a little early, I can do her hair. Then, ok, it's not going to get washed. Ok, well, I'm not going to be able to wash it today, it will get washed next time, all right. And then it's just like a trickle effect with things and it's like OK, well, how long are you going to be here? I told him I don't know I'm winging it, but I'm going to get everything done today. But time wise, it's wing.

Candace Fleming: 1:03:31

I wanted to take her to her cousin's house because I was doing a photo shoot and then, time wise, that wasn't going to work. I was like, ok, well, what's the next solution? And it's always just about rolling to the next solution, because if you get stuck in that problem, you're going to stay in that problem. Nobody has time to be stuck in a problem. I would have missed out on doing so much this weekend had I been stuck on a problem, or it would have been anxious and just ah, anybody got time for that, all right. How are we going to regroup? Yes, and that's so. You know, I never thought about not believing in balance, but maybe I don't either, because I'm winging a lot of things. But we going to get it together.

Corene Johnson: 1:04:11

Yeah, I've tried it so many times, like trying to make sure. I mean, yesterday we had to reschedule our podcast recording, I had to miss a birthday party, I mean, and it was all because my kids had basketball. I forgot that we had a sitter coming over for a date night. Like it was so many factors where I was just like, oh my goodness, this is not going to work. I don't know what I was thinking. And then, you know, like I said, my grandmother passed away. I had a friend who was tragically, who tragically passed away this week. So it's like you also, in these moments, you also have to realize if something feels chaotic, it's probably because of everything that's going on around you, and we're so used to moving so quick that we don't even like give ourselves the grace to say you know what?

Corene Johnson: 1:05:03

I can't record this today, can we please do it tomorrow and like, if there is someone in your life who doesn't get it, then they probably don't need to be present in your life, because that's just a part of life, you know, and what?

Candace Fleming: 1:05:17

happened. I told you it was perfect. It worked out so well that you had to reschedule. So perfect, Because yesterday, trying to figure out how I was going to put that in my day, I was like I don't know, but I guess I'm going to figure it out. Then it was like hey, I'm sorry to do this, but can we reschedule? Heck, yes, you don't know. You saved my life.

Corene Johnson: 1:05:37

And a lot of times it's like we have so much on our plate that the other person may need that relief too. And so I'm not saying we need to go through life canceling everything, but just be mindful that life is happening for everybody, and if you have good people around you, they get it. They get it and they know that you are not some person that's just making up excuses, and so that's why you just have to be very mindful of the people that you have around you and the people that you have around your children Like, oh my goodness, the people that you have around your children, who is so important? So, because our village is creating the example too, yes, yeah.

Corene Johnson: 1:06:23

Our village is creating the example, twitter fingers over there.

Candace Fleming: 1:06:29

Ok, we are over an hour at this point and I'm going to say your comment when, I receive it, but for anyone who is struggling and need help, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or text it at 988 for free and confidential information 24 hours a day, 365 days a week. Of course, corrine, I am really grateful to have had you. She said a whole new podcast. I don't even know what that was in reference to Starting new things. Oh, who we allow our children to be around. That's a whole nother podcast.

Corene Johnson: 1:07:06

Oh yeah, absolutely, Absolutely, absolutely. You got to be, got to have them around people, but you know, I will say this before we go you got to have them around the light and the dark too, because they have to see it. They have to see it, and it's really hard sometimes it's hard, but they have to see it, because if they don't see it, they will think everything is green and it's not. So. You have to see the dark too, to know when it's yellow and when it's red. The red flags, the red flags. Having kids around a diverse group of people is lessons. It is the best lesson, oh my goodness, it's the best you know.

Candace Fleming: 1:07:53

I definitely had to come to grips with that, because there are environments and situations that my daughter ended up in that are out of my control, and it's like you know what this can be good for her. I just have to look at the good in that, because, guess what? I'm her example, I'm her main example. You know, I am the one who's going to feeder these rules and ways to go about life. So if I continue to combat, what did she learn there? Ok, well, you learn this Now. How can I? Oh, new podcast. You're right, ok, the people we influence.

Candace Fleming: 1:08:24

You're right, we cannot keep going on this because that's a whole nother hour of conversation. Kareen, is there anywhere? Anything you want to give to the audience? Any social medias I know you gave us the mommy hour on any podcast.

Corene Johnson: 1:08:41

Yeah, I'm on Instagram at kareenlabon that's C-O-R-E-N-E, dot, L-A-V-H-A-N, and I just I'm just so happy that you're doing this and I'm just so, I'm really proud of you. I really am. I think it's so important for us to have these conversations you and Mama Janet, and I just think it's just so. It's always just breath like a breath of fresh air to hear black women speak so freely about the journey and growth and talking about it all. It's just so breathtaking, because I feel like we don't always get to do this. We are expected to show up in a very specific way in a lot of different spaces, and so when we create our own spaces, it's very freeing. So so many people need you guys and I'm so happy that you guys are continuing the journey. Thanks for having me.

Candace Fleming: 1:09:46

Thank you, kareen. And of course, you can find me at CandaceFleming, at essentialmotivationcom. You can send your emails. Instagram, candace. I'm at essentialmotivation LLC. Or Candace Casper that's my personal one and I apparently started merging them. And then there is Facebook, essential motivation.

Candace Fleming: 1:10:07

So, yes, please share, like, subscribe, tell all your friends, tell all the people who want to make us a monetized podcast in the major way. Oh, ok, jenny wants me to let you know, kareen, that these platforms allow what say it again allow us to be free and not allow Black women to have a space to be able to be authentic, and we can talk about our experiences without cold switching, without to have a safe space, and we can do it with pride. Yes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. To have a safe space, Unapologetically, unapologetically, yeah, yeah, all right. Well, thank you all so much for listening. Thank you, kareen, for being here with us. Thank you, mom for your very best rendition of being here. With the technical difficulties. Yes, we can still see her. Great, yes. So thank you all so much, it's been great and until next time. Bye, guys. A巡邨 short film accepted by SeattlePSR. Unrealized했manship damit hardware and Recording class.